Western Devs aiming for ' 30fps' annoyance

Its been concerning me for some time now, ive noticed that western developers tend to not be strict about their products ' frame rates' .. It seems they mostly go for that ' little-bit extra detail' over the full 60fps and i can’t understand why? they also tend to show their games way too early and show them (in some cases at least) in ultra jerk vision.. while Japanese Developers always wait till ther games are fully optimised and at a constant super smooth frame rate IE: NNN, Lost planet, DR, RR6, DOAx, etc..

This Dead Rising footage is AWESOME!

A great-looking game isn’t just about fine details, but also fluid motions and super-smooth frame rate..

Silky-smooth 60fps really helps give games that quality-feel.

I would love for western developers to take the 60fps issue as serious as the Japanese Developers do.. Even it that means cutting alittle detail down.. ild rather a ' true arcade-like' feel..

.. I really cant stand 30fps games anymore.. Western 360 Developers are really making a habit of it... While Sony ps3 and Nintendo will seem to have a policy for developers to make games around a 60fps engine..

This issue may not bother people at all, but its starting to really bother me.

Ahum...

Pgr3 was in 30 fps...

Motogp 06 is in 60 fps.

I never thought about it until i read about it,,

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

30 fps is just really fine in many type of games, take for exemple RPG' s , adventure games, even action games, all those typoes of games that require more graphics to help the immersion.

i' ll go for more detail than 60 fps, because 30 fps does just fine really

I would love for western developers to take the 60fps issue as serious as the Japanese Developers do.. Even it that means cutting alittle detail down.. ild rather a ' true arcade-like' feel..

....yeah i' d like that too... ....i think (hope) the current situation is just due to games being rushed for launch, and that devs had to leave 60fps out because of time concerns.....

....i expect all the real quality western titles (Huxley, GOW etc) to be in 60fps...

...it would be difficult to take any major blockbuster release seriously, if it didn' t have it....

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

The question that' s currently on the minds of Western developers is: " What is 60 fps?? All this time we' ve been shooting for 30 fps thinking that it' s the highest we could go. You mean all this time we had a 60 fps option? F**K!!!"

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

It probably depends on the game, whether 60 frames is necessary. Some games I play (like F-Zero or Smash Bros.) wouldn' t be as good in 30 fps, while some games run in it (Resident Evil) and I don' t mind at all. Games that are reaction-dependent seem to require a higher fps than games that are slower-paced.

I just don' t like it when a game' s fps drops into the 20' s or ' teens. I think 60 fps was originally used as a sort of guarantee that this wouldn' t happen.

Yea, 60fps and a little motion blur makes a huge difference in fast paced racers and shooters. I' d sooner take a step back on detail to achieve this first than go all out to get realistic shadows and reflections. It' s why I like Nintendo' s approach of sacrificing HD to save enough power for other stuff.

I' ve gotta say, I' ve been playing Oblivion and have recently just played through Tron 2.0 on the same machine (got it for £3! - anyone remember that game?), and even though Tron was made in 2003, the extra fps from running on a PC 3x the recommended specs made it feel just as ' next-gen' as Oblivion.. i' m not kidding!

I hear Test Drive Unlimited is only 30fps too, is that right? For a racing game that is not good enough. When most f**king Dreamcast games were 60fps, why any developer thinks 30fps is acceptable two generations later really escapes me.

As it is today you can only play 1080p in around 24 fps.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

How many people will be running their consoles at 1080p... nobody with a 360 (as the console doesn' t support it) and almost nobody with a PS3.

As it is today you can only play 1080p in around 24 fps.

I can' t help but lmao at how stupid people are who say stuff like this.

I' m tired of explaining it I' m just going to laugh now.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Sony and other manufacturers are developing 1080p/30 and 1080p/60 systems to be released within the next three years.

As it is now its 24-30 fps max.

ofc i speak about tv' s.
Doesnt matter if your game can run in 120 fps like in cs,if your monitor stops at 60 hz.
That what you fail to get,bye !

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

oh yeah because TVs all max out at 24 hz...... dumbass

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Why are we talking about 1080p, it' s totally moot for 99.9% of people.

The point of the thread is, why are some devs happy to settle for 30fps as a target framerate. eg. PGR3, Test Drive Unlimited, Tomb Raider (360 version) etc.

Sony and other manufacturers are developing 1080p/30 and 1080p/60 systems to be released within the next three years.

As it is now its 24-30 fps max.

ofc i speak about tv' s.
Doesnt matter if your game can run in 120 fps like in cs,if your monitor stops at 60 hz.
That what you fail to get,bye !

Oh dear

The Hz matters not, but the bandwidth available. I have no idea if TVs are limited to 24fps at 1080p at this time, but I do know that there are 3 frame rates, 24, 30, and 60 available in all modes of HD. And it won' t run as low as 24Hz, that would be insane and completely unwatchable. I think the lowest it would run would be 72Hz (each frame shown thrice, just like a movie projector with a triple bladed shutter). I do know that most if not all " 1080p" sets do not accept actual 1080p inputs, but just upscale everything else to 1080p. Then there is the issue of bob or weave. It gets pretty messed up and complicated. I' d say stay away from any 1080p sets for a few years.

1080p/24fps is the signal that Blu-Ray discs will carry, so Quez is partially correct. However, as Joe noted, multiple of 24fps (48 and 72) are available and will allow for a smoother picture.

Most displays have a 60Hz refresh rate which is analogous to frames per second, and they still require 24fps film based material to be deinterlaced with 3/2 sequencing intact as 60fps is not a direct multiple of 24. It causes slight distortion because some frames are shown on screen more than others.

It won' t happen with Blu-Ray players because they will offer and on-the-fly 3/2 pulldown and deinterlacing of the 1080p/24fps signals that the discs will carry. It also won' t have any effect on PS3 or it' s games though as it just concerns film based material.

Damn it, i managed to post that twice...

quez is completly wrong because we were talking about framerates in the games.
He is just one of those idiots who pretends he knows more than he does.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

In that case, Quez was mistaken.

1080p/24fps only concerns film and even then it will be a multiple of 24fps.

I would however like to know whether the 7 SPE' s attatched to CELL will help developers get games running at 60fps. I suspect it will be a similar situation to 360 where some are 60fps and others are not.

24 fps in movies as with all other movies,and 30 fps when it comes to games.
I dont know what i was writings,and no,24 fps and 24 hz isn' t the same either.
However its gonna be fun to know which kind of person here has a 1080p tv that get its signal from hdmi output.

I must have been confusing movies and games,ofc 1080p can go over 24,30 fps,even 60 fps.
But i doubt that will happend in many games.
Also as ken said,their games will be in 120 fps.

1080p ... in 120 fps... TT

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

The fastest HDTV that I know of is 100Hz. That means it cannot display anything faster than 100fps, period.

I, personally, do not have a problem with 30fps. Maybe I' m just not as sensitive to the difference as some, but I think PGR3 and Tomb Raider look awesome! PGR3 truly gives a good sense of motion while you' re playing it, and that is what matters most in a racing game!

I think this whole frames-per-second debate is just going around so that people can feel like they' re smart, or something. All I know is that on my 133" high-def screen all of my 360 games look badass! And trust me when I say, at that size every imperfection shows!

As far as 1080p... yes it may matter in the future, but I don' t think it' ll be much of a concern this generation.

well...
the higher reso the slower the games fps will be...
I mean 1024' 768 is a reso we had for a long time now,and many games looks perfect in that when having all other things in high/4xAA.

So mayby 720 p can stay for ahilwe,but i dont know...

seeing how 1080p seems to be what we gonna watch our movies in,by the future so...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

30 fps, 60 fps, it does not matter much to me what frame rate games are, as long as it gets the appropriate fps for the title in question (F-Zero GX really needs the extra 30 frames as insurance). What matters more is that games should never, ever, drop the framerates, especially the dramatic drops. While I watched the MGS4 high res trailer, the game graphics were very beautiful. However, when the framerates dropped for me to notice, I got sucked right back out from the whole experience, which is truly a shame. Not that this was Kojima' s fault, mind you....

If developers make a game that runs at 30 fps, it should not drop any lower, since that is easily noticeable by us discerning gamers. 60 fps, I can understand a hit here and there. Drops from sixty frames per second are not quite as noticeable, so it is not quite as much a concern.

The big problem though is that American and European developers love pushing the graphics envelope so much that they allow the frame rates to be hit in such a noticeable fashion. This has peeved me off for the longest time. The framerate must stay up, or the experience drops with it. Plain and simple.

You wa Shock!!!

Just so you know...
Next gen HD videos...need a power pc to run them properly...
if you dont have a good enough 3d card or cpu it will lagg :O

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

HD videos need Power PCs or higher?

Now I' m torn. Do I get all three consoles and abandon building a new, Vista ready machine, or WiiDS and build a PC? Bloody heck!

You wa Shock!!!

I meant HD videos for games.
And yes,that is not me just guessing,thats what dev said themself,for ex itagaki told people to have a p4 2.4 ghz 512 ram 256mb 3d card to be able to see DOA 4 in HD at a normal speed.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I have that. Barely.

You wa Shock!!!

ORIGINAL: Chee Saw

I think this whole frames-per-second debate is just going around so that people can feel like they' re smart, or something.

No it' s because some of us realise that 60fps is much more fluid and smooth than 30fps. In a fast moving game it makes the whole game-playing experience more realistic and enjoyable.

My first console was a Dreamcast. I was quite shocked when I got an Xbox, and realised that a number of games on it, like Forza and PGR2 were only 30fps. The next gen (from a Dreamcast) but a backwards step in framerates. Now with the latest generation which are several times more powerful than an Xbox, 30fps should be a thing of the past right? Well apparently not. Devs seem to have got lazy and think a sub-standard framerate is acceptable. It' s quite simple for me, I just won' t buy any next-gen games which are 30fps.

It' s quite simple for me, I just won' t buy any next-gen games which are 30fps.

That seems pretty irrational to me. You' re going to be missing out on hundreds of awesome games.

Personally I don' t mind if a game runs at 30fps or 60fps. As long as it' s playable and appropriate to the style of game then why worry? Of course if I had the choice I' d go with 60fps but its absence is not going to prevent me from buying a game that I like.

Perhaps I' ve become tolerant of these things because I' ve played PC games for so long. It' s sometimes quite an effort to constantly get above 30fps on games like Oblivion without spending thousands of dollars on hardware upgrades, so you have to make do with what you' ve got.

ORIGINAL: UnluckyOne

Perhaps I' ve become tolerant of these things because I' ve played PC games for so long. It' s sometimes quite an effort to constantly get above 30fps on games like Oblivion without spending thousands of dollars on hardware upgrades, so you have to make do with what you' ve got.

On a fixed hardware platform like a games console however, there is no need or excuse for games not to be optimised to run at 60fps IMO.

I agree, but there are too many nubs that buy games and judge them by graphics in screen shots and things like that. That is why they rarely show real gameplay in advertisments for older consoles like PS2. At least some developers like team ninja still go by the 60 fps standard.

PS2 commercials are usually pretty funny but they never show any real game play. It is good marketing on their part but a bit immoral by my standards, the same thing could be said about the screen-shots of CG on game boxes. They fool a lot of people.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

ORIGINAL: locopuyo

I agree, but there are too many nubs that buy games and judge them by graphics in screen shots and things like that.

Very true. I just hope 30fps games aren' t becoming an increasing trend.

That is why they rarely show real gameplay in advertisments for older consoles like PS2. At least some developers like team ninja still go by the 60 fps standard.

Yep and kudos to them

ORIGINAL: locopuyo

I agree, but there are too many nubs that buy games and judge them by graphics in screen shots and things like that. That is why they rarely show real gameplay in advertisments for older consoles like PS2. At least some developers like team ninja still go by the 60 fps standard.

PS2 commercials are usually pretty funny but they never show any real game play. It is good marketing on their part but a bit immoral by my standards, the same thing could be said about the screen-shots of CG on game boxes. They fool a lot of people.

What really gets me is how you always get somone suing for false advertising like (call of duty) so now I think companies make it a must to always put at the end of the advert ' ' Not in game footage' ' . I think they should always advertise with in game footage.

hum...
i often make the graphic good enough so it runs in 30-40 fps when it comes to pc games...
For me 30 fps is more then enough,as cliffy said,we could hit 40+ fps but gonna just add more candy until we hit 30 fps.

That sound good to me,however 120 fps games...will they have eye candy?

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

For me 30fps is only really acceptable in games like Resident Evil 4 which is both smooth and stable overall.

However for the next-gen anything below 60fps is unacceptable, if it runs at 60 with mild slowdown then that' s okay for FPS' s and third-person games. I still stand by my view that anything Dreamcast era onwards in the home should be running at 60fps. After all that was one of the reasons why the Dreamcast was to bring a new era of home high-end visuals, arcade Model 3 quality polish but all at a smooth 60fps.

Seems like even the best western devs just don' t care enough about this though. 30fps was only done on PSone and Saturn because of lack of proccessing and graphics power, and with clean and refined programming routines, 60fps is possible with the likes of Gears of War and most of the best looking next-gen games.

" running at a TV scorching 60 frames per second"

Taken from the back of the box for Tekken 1 on the PSone. Seems like mainsteam gaming has killed that as a standard for all games to aspire to.

I agree, but there are too many nubs that buy games and judge them by graphics in screen shots and things like that.

Hit the nail on the head, over here the dumb-type gamers mostly judge a game by it screenshots and rave over just ' screen shots' .. go look at sites such as Xboxyde where the people go crazy over any 360 game using HDR texturing..

These western gamers seem to be buying these games running at ' half-assed' frame rates so developers just tend to get lazy and carry on with the same thing...

I could understand in the Saturn and playstation days when the hardware couldn’t cut it, sometimes even with the GC, Xbox and PS2 days... but in this generation its just unacceptable and Lazy.

wtf?
Yes im sure killzone 2 will look as it looked last e3 ;)
And ofc it will have a decent fps at the same time.

TT

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

wtf?
Yes im sure killzone 2 will look as it looked last e3 ;)
And ofc it will have a decent fps at the same time.

TT

What is this guy on?