Microsoft could win the West

I have been prepping this post fo a short while now and i meant to post it the other day but got caught up with the " Wii" announcement and discussions and so have only just gotten around to it.

...

I' m going to start with a relevation.

Just under a week ago my coursemates and i were lucky enough to be able to sit through a presentation of the XNA development environment and get a brief look at DirectX 10 along with a couple of other things. It was a lecture i was never going to miss, and i am certain that virtually every single person enrolled on my course was present and acounted for. That presentation that has pretty much convinced me, ahead of E3 that Microsoft could have the next-gen battle in the west won already.

There are several factors that have formed my ..no doubt controversial to most.. view, and the main factor is a trio of games that i see as being paramount to Microsoft' s strategy in the US and Europe:

- Gears of War
- Too Human
- Mass Effect

All 3 games are due to be released aroundabout the same time that Sony and Nintendo are launching their consoles, and all three are exclusive to Xbox 360.

There are a large number of games that are going to be exclusive to Xbox 360, and games like; Lost Planet, Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Blue Dragon, Lost Planet, Cry On, Dead Rising, Viva Pinata, Crackdown, Just Cause and ofcourse Halo 3, -- will no doubt help push the console along and have big effects on console sales, but i see the 3 games i listed previous to be far more important to Microsoft' s first 12 months competing with Sony' s machine.

They' re new IP' s for one, each from a highly respected codeshop who have previously developed awesome titles that have gained huge followings. They also undoubtedly look like what you expect next-gen games to look like, and while we' ve already had Oblivion and Ghost Recon on 360, they' re about the only games that are worthy of noting as being next-gen, -- with the others being nice ports. Gears of War], Mass Effect and Too Human however are definately a representation of what this generation will give us with regards to visual fidelity.



I would personally say that Gears of War is more important than Halo 3 and I would say that Gears is going to be to Xbox 360 what Halo was to Xbox, and then some. That' s what I would say!



1.5 million copies of Halo 2 were pre-ordered in the US before its release and 2.4 million copies were sold within the games first 24 hours on store shelves, going on to sell 7+ million copies in a year. Not bad for a videogame! But with the growing number of first person games headed for Microsoft' s shiny new console, when Halo 3 arrives it won' t make the kind of impression that some expect, or it will but won' t be hailed as the machines finest game. I expect Gears and Too Human to sell those kind of figures and hopefully even more as the userbase expands past the 20 million or so that Xbox reached.

I would say that both Too Human and Gears of War are also currently more anticipated by Microsofts userbase and i think Gears of War is going to be a title that Microsoft push heavily against PS3 and i forsee it to some extent having an effect on Sony' s sales, simply because they won' t have anything that looks THAT good. The only downside to Gears of War is the lack of online play, something that certainly won' t effect sales but would have been a welcome addition.

It' s definately going to be a graphical showcase for the hardware, developed by Epic themselves to show what can be done with their engine. It looks gorgeous. It' s that simple, and i know that lately it' s been put on the back burner for a short while and people have half way forgotten about it because it' s been delayed until November, but it' s definately time to start thinking about it again because it' s going to be at E3 and it' s going to look even better than you remember.

A couple of things that you will see coming out of E3 are re-worked motion capture animations and demonstrations of the melee combat in the game. At least, that' s what i expect. It' s also viable that Microsoft will make a demo available on Xbox Live Marketplace, like the already confirmed Lost Planet (3 levels) Demo set for 9th May. That' d be nice too and i think it' s that kind of thing that they need to do to get people thinking about buying 360.



The only game i think could be argued as being more needed/anticipated/important than Gears has to be Too Human. Definately the biggest competition to Ninja Gaiden' s crown as the most stylish title to grace a Microsoft console, though i would actually say that honour belongs to Geomery Wars -- but we' ll get Ninja Gaiden 2 later on anyhow!

I' ve already said much about this game in other threads so i' ll just post some pretty pictures instead...











Mass Effect, i think will be hugely popular in Europe especially, outdoing the development teams previous KOTOR games that sold very well on Xbox, oh and ofcourse Jade Empire, which you either loved or hated...



While Microsoft are gong to great lengths to secure Japanese developed RPG' s, i think that it' s games like this that will sell 360 in the west, and open up doors for other developers wanting to work on epic projects like this.

I know relatively little about the game, only that it looks great, but It obviously has massive potential.

It' s on the backs of these games, and the announced but not elaborated on extra blades/additions to the consoles dashboard, including the DirecTV blade, that i think come christmas time, with a strategic price reduction 360 could potentially outsell PS3 in Europe and the states, aided by the hardware shortages which you just know Sony will suffer.

It' s fair to say that just a handful of games aren' t enough to contend with the launch of a new machine, but when you have several titles that will undoubtedly sell the kind of figures that Halo and Halo 2 sold on Xbox, the have them supported by other exclusive big name games and 3rd party multiplatform games, some of which will also be availble on PS3 (RE5 for example), i can' t see how anybody could say that a launch lineup could possibly contend, no matter how overhyped (can you say Perfect Dark Zero?!)

I think that if Microsoft hit 10 million units sold by Early 2007, they would almost certainly have the US and European markets in the bag, with only the rest of the world to worry about.

It could possibly happen, 360 certainly has its software advantages (though i wouldn' t write-off Some big launch titles at Sony' s booth to be shown at E3)..

I think Sony are without Doubt more worried about the Situation of Japan at the moment, Nintendo are absolutely trouncing Sony in Japan.. DS lite Sales have gone up Even further than the last sales period (WTF are newly-born Japanese buying this thing?) selling over 170,000 units, Original DS still selling more than both PSP and PS2 at i think about 40,000 units..

I guess and read that Wii is becoming a strong symbol already to Japanese gamers.. even if half of the current DS/lite owners go on to buy a Wii over there, that could be enough for Wii to dominate the market..

The DS had to be a huge sigh of relief for Nintendo. They' re console sales were in threat of Microsoft and Sony and Sony was moving into their handheld territory with the PSP. The huge DS sales should help lead them back into the console wars with the Wii.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

To be honest I think the halo 3 thing is being over cooked as in I don' t think that many people are going to get it this time round (hopes to goodness i' m wrong) however I think you' ll find a lot of new interests in gears of war heck even i' m waiting for gears of war so i' d definately agree on it possibly being the game (along with others to come) to push the 360 also with viva pinyada airing in september it gives them a bit of free advertising and opening to attract another bracket of consumers, I also think it will be a fun game to play.

I for one am hoping for a MS win this round. If only to silence some of the fanboys, though some will shout even higher, and i will gain support it it gets to be the underdog.

Sony' s silence is making me doubt how well its going for their console, and from what iv read, the launch titles look like a sad bunch!

thanks for a coherent, well structured post Majik.

Made my morning of marking and handing in assignments slightly more entertaining too.

I' ve seen the DX10 pres too, and If Microsoft can pull it off as sweetly as it looks, developers will be flocking to a shared platform dev environment.

When I think back to the number of surprises in the hardware industry, the numbers of times people have overstretched themselves, or made things too difficult to develop for in the quest for the " mines better than yours" hardware battle supremacy..

It certainly sounds like MS have the lead at present with the new production facility on the way, and with the PS3 stock extremely limited for the first year and with a strong 2nd line of more developed next gen titles, personally I' d like to see MS win this round - a competitive marketplace is an exciting one.

The other thing is, that with all the hype and money they are risking with the PS3, and stating extended lifecycles etc..etc.. of their hardware - what happens a few years in to the 360 when MS launch their hardware secret? Or are willing to launch a new console again. They wont give up until they have won a round, and of all the developers they are the most driven to succeed.

When the chap mentioned a hardware secret a couple few years down the line to us I was quite taken aback, but he wouldnt go into any other detail.. with such a large amount of time and so(NY) many questions let surrounding the PS3, it jtu feels now like the 360 is ready to be something more substantial, and that PS3 is playing catchup at least for now - and the wii wii is seen as a separate entity to the both of them.

The West is one thing, North America is the first market to watch!

Why even name Jade empire,the dev in biopware already stated the team behind mass effect is gonna be the team behind KOTOR,not jade empire or baldurs gate.

And it make sense,that was a sci-fi game and mass will be one ;)
Also Lucas arts restrained and changed bioware ideas then and then,said bioware even though they was happy with the co-work.


Btw,Gears of war will support,co-op through the whole game,seeing how marcus is gonna have his friend phonix with him,the other player take control of him,it will also support TEAM DEATHMATCH.

But yes i dont think the online part will be as crucial as the SP,which gonna have pre-scripted awesomness with UE3.0 engine at its best.


BTW ENCHANT ARM is coming to USA/EU...

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/704/704069p1.aspx

score in famitsu was 7,8,8,9

basically one of the reviewer gaved it 7,and two of them 8,and one really loved it i guess and gaved it 9.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Hey Andy!

A hardware secret?! Hahaha well I know that there' s some technology currently lying dormant in 360, but Sony will know that too because by now they' ll have taken apart and tested the retail units they picked up shortly after launch. No doubt they' ve invalidated their warranty several times over and maybe even struggled to remove the protective foil on the heat sink like we did...

I know that Microsoft have repeatedly said that the console is future proofed, possibly hinting at ungradability, but i don' t quite see how when i look at the internal workings of the console itself. N64 was ungradable though, needing the expansion pak to play select games, so it' s not as far reaching as it sounds.

XNA is going to be a blessing for 360 developers, but Sony will undoubtedly follow suit with their own development environment. It IS amusing that 360 will be the only console to benefit from DX10 though, at least it' s amusing from my personal perspective. I' m not certain if i want Microsoft to crush Sony, I think i' d rather just see them loosen Sony' s grip on the industry and have the kind of situation we had with Megadrive (Genesis) and SNES as far as marketshare goes.

I' m really interested to know what price Sony will be launching at and with what games, because then i' ll be abale to evaluate the situation more thoroughly and decide whether any and all funds i have at the years end are going to expanding my Xbox 360 library or starting my Playstation 3 collection...

I was hoping that we' d have seen shome screenshots of the next Oddworld game by now, but i suppose this will suffice for a while...

This game acutally had my interest... and maybe assasins for the ps3 want to hear more on both.. M$ do seem to be getting some interesting games... I wonder now more about my next gen purchase... but then M$ has had a long time to get stuff interesting for me, the PS3 might be the same... hmmm...

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

I' m definately gonna get enchanted arm it looks interesting....damn i can' t believe iv' e been so interested in so many 360 games i' m expecting a drought now...as for the technology isue when I got my 360 and looked at it I remember thinking that there may be something more to it thats not been awakened yet if thats true it will be interesting to see microsofts counter when the race ensues. Also it' s interesting to see how microsoft seem to have learnt a lot this time round they seem more composed somehow and sony seem to be hiding behind the scenes (probably worrying).

...your initial post is definitely interesting reading, which generally highlights some pretty highly anticipated games to appear on 360 (and it' s touted developer friendliness)....

...but with so little knowledge about Sony' s hand, how can you really make an accurate *coughunbiasedcough* assessment?....

....for example, new consoles generally suck during launch and the first year or so right?.... ...and you guys are always going on about how " 360 is just getting warmed up" .. ...well wouldn' t that be the same for the PS3?......

.....do you have any info about the planned releases for PS3 about a year after launch?... ...when devs are more familiar with it' s workings?....

....also: i was under the impression that Sony have a substantial amount more of support from developers, correct?... ...so even if (for arguments sake) PS3 and 360 are equal in terms of ability, circa Christmas 2008, wouldn' t one expect to see more impressive, truly next gen games with the ' only on playstation' sticker?....

.....personally i don' t give a flying f*ck who ' wins' because, they only thing that i truly care about, is good games which appeal to me personally as a GAMER.....

...why do you feel the need to tell us all about how great MS is going to be anyway?... ...don' t you think they have their own press agent?.. (opta perhaps?) or are you just another, less blatant corporate viral marker? (who happens to also dispense ultra cool anime)....

...it' s your business i guess.... .although it does get rather boring at times y' know?....

...companies suck, games rule.....

....The End...

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....for example, new consoles generally suck during launch and the first year or so right?.... ...and you guys are always going on about how " 360 is just getting warmed up" .. ...well wouldn' t that be the same for the PS3?......

Yeah, that' s pretty much what i expect. But if Microsoft hit 10 million by the end on this year, then go on to sell more than Sony in 2007 there could be a new ;eader in this generation, meaning that those infamous Japanese developers that are so fond of Sony because of their marketability would begin jumping ship.

I expect Sony will probably come out ahead, but Microsoft certainly has a fighting chance in the west.

Sony have done pretty much everything wrong up to this point, instilling much doubt in people like myself as to whether they were fully prepared for this generation anyway. E3 will give me a better idea of what Sony are doing and i don' t doubt that i' ll be impressed, but the company hasheld a firm grip on the industry for 2 generations now and Microsoft came out of nowhere and outsold a company that has been doing this for 20 years.

What Microsoft did with Xbox; unified online system, HDD, downloadable content etc... is now being emulated by the market leader, so obviously these addtions that they brought to the console front are both wanted and needed. People thought having a HDD and a unified online service would never work, but they weren' t laughing at the popularity of capabilities like custom playlists in games.

What Microsoft has done and IS doing is being watched very closely by it' s biggest rival, and if Sony is watching then we should probably take notice too.

They' re doomed in Japan. 360 will never sell like a Playstation or Nintendo console will on their home turf, but the western market has proven itself to be very different. Marketshare is important and something that developers take into account when they start talking about their next game. It' s important to US because a consoles marketshare directly affects the volume of titles on the machine, something you can see clearly with Gamecube.

I' m not biased towards Microsoft. I think they are moving in the right direction and i think Sony are lagging somewhat, but the company i want to see do really well is Nintendo. I' m a big Nintendo fanboy (i hate that term)

....also: i was under the impression that Sony have a substantial amount more of support from developers, correct?...

Sony was more marketable. I think that' s changing, and hat were seeing now is developers that would have never really looked twice at Xbox are deciding to put games out on both formats as not to be left out if one console rapidly pulls ahead.

Microsoft is obviously a well known company in the west, and they have vast quantities of money to throw at studios and publishers and they' re spending more and more all the time to secure themselves with not only the kind of games PS2 had but also to increase the volume of games over what Xbox had.

If you look at the little things that they are doing, like making the E3 HD trailers and demo' s available for Xbox Live users to download, play and watch, as well as giving Silver members a week free of online play. That' s what should be happening. I mean, before now we would have had to just read about the medias experiences of playing the demos on the showfloor, but now we can play them?! That' s a smart move.

Mark Rein of Epic Games said that he thinks at some point down the line Sony will be licencing their online service from Microsoft. That say a lot in itself. But then what doe Mark Rein know eh...

My comments can be taken as and how people like, but i stand by them. The idea here is to discuss the topic. What' s your view?



Oh, and i' ll upload the next 3 episodes for you tomorrow!

To me it seems like Sony doesn' t take gaming seriously and Microsoft does.

Mircosoft had huge detailed plans that they modifed over long periods of time for designing the 360 and its controller. They show videos on the process and show how the people in charge know and control everything that is going on with the development. They made XNA and xbox live and all this other stuff that shows they are serious and care a lot about having the best stuff.

With sony you get the idea that they had a one week contest between 7th graders to design the controller and console. The more you think about the PS3 and the controller the the more flaws you can think off. They don' t show videos of the design process or show the guys in charge taking part in development. They do is talk about how awesome it will be but don' t give you any facts, they just say its awesome.

The only people sony are convincing are people without the mental capacity to realize its a bunch of BS.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

360 has a lot more going for it than XBox did. So yea I' d say it' s going to do well in the West to say the least.

It' s wierd though. I think MS really caters well for its target audiences (which are huge), but they seem to ignore the marginal gamers, those with slightly different tastes. Most 360 games and the most popular XBox games seem to merge into one imo. Even Too Human, Mass Effect and Gears don' t seem to be getting me hugely excited, although I' m definitely interested in seeing how they turn out in the end. I mean is DX10 and XNA gonna just bring us more of the same?

Maybe 360' s just getting started, and later we' ll see a much more diverse range of styles. But atm it seems MS are happy just catering for their own bunch. If they don' t realise that ' The West' includes a lot of people, who may or may not share the taste for gun toting bald badasses, they might even ' lose' . Maybe I should just go live in the East..

ORIGINAL: choupolo

It' s wierd though. I think MS really caters well for its target audiences (which are huge), but they seem to ignore the marginal gamers, those with slightly different tastes. Most 360 games and the most popular XBox games seem to merge into one imo. Even Too Human, Mass Effect and Gears don' t seem to be getting me hugely excited, although I' m definitely interested in seeing how they turn out in the end. I mean is DX10 and XNA gonna just bring us more of the same?

Maybe 360' s just getting started, and later we' ll see a much more diverse range of styles. But atm it seems MS are happy just catering for their own bunch. If they don' t realise that ' The West' includes a lot of people, who may or may not share the taste for gun toting bald badasses, they might even ' lose' . Maybe I should just go live in the East..

It' s more up to the developers than Microsoft to cater for the niche markets. Microsoft doesn' t actually get to order around the developers working on 360 titles. They probably have some influence over MGS (duh) but I think all of the studios that make up MGS are extremely creative and have a lot of freedom anyway.

All in all the reason why marginal gamers don' t get catered for too often is simply because they are marginal. As sad as it is, developers want games that sell well and appeal to the masses, not games that sell small quantities and yield small profits. The cost of failure is extremely high these days so fewer developers are willing to take the risk.

Hmm, well I can understand why they do it this way. But if you account for all the different niches, interests, styles, genres etc that mainstream gamers over here don' t play, you get quite a huge chunk of the potential gaming population that gets missed out. Possibly even as big as the popular gamers themselves. Even though it' s harder to extract profit from the marginal crowd, they' re by no means less important in the larger picture. So not only is there a sizable profit to be made in total (for MS at least), it can only help to keep the gaming industry and 360s image healthy.

I thought PS2 did fairly well in this respect, which I think was to do with Sony allowing/supporting many different developers from different backgrounds (and with different interests themselves) to make games. MS does have a lot of influence on what games appear on the 360, if only by choosing it' s 3rd party dev partnerships carefully. PC has always done well here imo, due to the platform' s lack of ownership per se, allowing practically anyone to make games and publish them on the internet if not on the retail shelves. And despite popular belief it is possible to make great games on small budgets!

I' m even less optimistic about PS3 this generation however, mainly because of how they' ve been acting and what we' ve seen so far (hardly f-all!), but all I know is, the Japanese are a diverse bunch too and aren' t just good at RPGs. And that' s something I' d like to properly see more of on 360. Oh well, E3 will reveal all (of life' s mysteries!)

ORIGINAL: locopuyo

To me it seems like Sony doesn' t take gaming seriously and Microsoft does.

Mircosoft had huge detailed plans that they modifed over long periods of time for designing the 360 and its controller. They show videos on the process and show how the people in charge know and control everything that is going on with the development. They made XNA and xbox live and all this other stuff that shows they are serious and care a lot about having the best stuff.

With sony you get the idea that they had a one week contest between 7th graders to design the controller and console. The more you think about the PS3 and the controller the the more flaws you can think off. They don' t show videos of the design process or show the guys in charge taking part in development. They do is talk about how awesome it will be but don' t give you any facts, they just say its awesome.

The only people sony are convincing are people without the mental capacity to realize its a bunch of BS.

Thats another reason why I think microsoft has done as well as it did with the xbox, they' ve showed the process of development of their product so you have a better feeling that a lot of thought went into it and it wasn' t just flung together. Sony on the other hand gives me the feeling that they made their machine with movies being the main focal point the design isn' t anything to go by, the components just seem like they went with stuff just to out do their rival without taking costs into consideration, to me it' s contrasting because it seems like sony has taken such an amateur approach this generation whereas microsoft seems to be the most planned and thought out...(but maybe i' m wrong).

It' s wierd though. I think MS really caters well for its target audiences (which are huge), but they seem to ignore the marginal gamers, those with slightly different tastes. Most 360 games and the most popular XBox games seem to merge into one imo. Even Too Human, Mass Effect and Gears don' t seem to be getting me hugely excited, although I' m definitely interested in seeing how they turn out in the end. I mean is DX10 and XNA gonna just bring us more of the same?

Maybe 360' s just getting started, and later we' ll see a much more diverse range of styles. But atm it seems MS are happy just catering for their own bunch. If they don' t realise that ' The West' includes a lot of people, who may or may not share the taste for gun toting bald badasses, they might even ' lose' . Maybe I should just go live in the East..

Long Quote i know!

Too me its always seemed like Sony was the one doing repetetive games, boring stuff like Jak 2 and Ratchet and Clank, i mean really Too human, mass effect and Gears of War arent really a like, except its SciFi and ofcourse the Unreal Engine. Mass Effect is a Tactical Shooter RPG, Too Human is a Action game with RPG elements, and Gears of War is a stop and pop styled shooter! I think they will all play differently!

People thought having a HDD and a unified online service would never work, but they weren' t laughing at the popularity of capabilities like custom playlists in games.

...who exactly?.... ...ANALysts maybe?...

It' s important to US because a consoles marketshare directly affects the volume of titles on the machine, something you can see clearly with Gamecube.

...no..

.... that would only be important to that particular manufacturer and it' s fan(boy)s..

....a real gamer would just sell his dying machine and get it' s rivals better supported machine ..(or not bother if it was crap from the get go).....
......isn' t that how Sega got replaced by Sony?... (don' t fry my @$$ sega fans, I' m just trying to be objective...

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

I think being objective would require determinig when exactly the sega consoles died, and just how level the playing field is at a given time.

The Saturns launch (in eurpoe at least) is very reminiscent of the PS3 launch now. A more expensive, more complicated, more rushed unit. In its day the PSX was a far simpler console to develop for, and this alone with clever marketing and dev support turned the market around.

At that time, Sega were far to overstretched with so many hardware platforms (mainly sega USA' s fault for pushing along with the dev of 32x even when they knew the saturn was comming) - the Saturns success in Japan till the late ninetees also shows how dedicated the Japanese are to homegrwon hardware.

1995/6 I thought as Sony being inovators and thoguht, fair play, Sega will bounce back as they had done with Nintendo back in the day. To which they did, but it was at this point Sony changed into something far more malicious, and despite what stands are an innovative console today the DC had success only in the years before PS2 launch. Sony killed it with Hype - in other words, clever marketing to the masses.

A good measure of this hype-ability would be comparing the 360 to the DC, which are at similar points compared to the sony hardware launch.

The days where particular hardware vendors produced more of cerain types of games have pretty much passed us by. But it is always much more exciting when there are 3 big players in game!

If we look at early saturn vs. PSX games, if you were an arcade gamer you had a saturn end of. But the mass market politics of Sony changed all that forever, and made a company such as able to fit in quite nicely.

The way I see it, the Wii and the 360 have alrleady set about making their marks, or set out what they aim to achieve. But what has the PS3 aimed to do significantly differently? So far no-one seems to know - and thats pretty late in the game!

One things for sure, us punters are pretty fickle, and if something annoys us.... we drop it like its hot!

It is my opinion that M$ isn' t as serious about gaming as they are about making even more $$. They have failed to deliver upon the complete-backwards-compatibility issue - a BIG issue for previous XBOX owners. Also, M$ has just started to get around to bringing better games to the market, but most initial titles were rushed - a signature M$ move.

If M$ keeps doing this, any gamer with an ounce of respect will go elsewhere for their gaming.

Don' t get me wrong...I like the XBOX and XBOX360, but I am looking at the Wii and PS3 to see if either has potential to deliver my kind of games (RPG, FPS, Rally Racing).

Let' s just hope that M$ gets their act straightened up before gamers realize that they (M$) are about $$, and not so much about gaming.

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.

I am not to sure WHY microsoft are even still in the Industry, all they have done is lost billions and have yet to see a return. Yep, they learned alot from the xbox, dont inlcude a hdd as standard, screw supporting the old console, screw backward complatlity, screw buying a remote just to watch dvds, screw everybody. We want your money, and we want you NINTENDO!, Sony are not competetion to us as we are allready out a year ahead of them, heh, us at microsoft would be surprized if the ps3 will even sell more than a million units.And We have never heard of the dreamcast.

In fact our only competeion is our refecltion in the mirror. oh. Hi there. Handsome.


the moral of the story: Microsoft will be bettered, they underestmate their comptetion and they love themselves.


Now, I must run, Nintendo is trying to make a new mario party game as a launch title for the wii!

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Too me its always seemed like Sony was the one doing repetetive games, boring stuff like Jak 2 and Ratchet and Clank, i mean really Too human, mass effect and Gears of War arent really a like, except its SciFi and ofcourse the Unreal Engine.

the word for today is generalisation - I' m not saying you' re ignorant or anything like that , especially since you clearly wrote " to me" and " seemed" :)

Shadow of the Collosus ,Okami - the latest innovation in art direction and gameplay alike - both are considered to be almost revolutionary

Final Fantasy 12 - most reviewers say it' s a next gen RPG in beautiful , but current gen graphics,

God of War, MGS - Storytelling at it' s best and with awesome gameplay

It' s hard to compare them to Mass Effect or Too Human, Gears of War or whatever , since all we know about those titles is HYPE

They have failed to deliver upon the complete-backwards-compatibility issue - a BIG issue for previous XBOX owners. Also, M$ has just started to get around to bringing better games to the market, but most initial titles were rushed - a signature M$ move.

Couldn' t agree more ...Backwards Compatibility - that' s not only a failure - to this day they state that 360 is compatible with 200 titles - it' s a lie.

It is their signature move , but they seem to understand it' s stupidity - at least they make that impression when they said things like " Halo 3 will be out when ready" and so on.

the moral of the story: Microsoft will be bettered, they underestmate their comptetion and they love themselves.

They do love themselves I agree , but I' d say the rest of this post is some unhealthy fanboyism.

They do realize that nothing will stop PS3 from selling milions of units , not even the biggest hype generator like HALO3 - Peter Moore said it.

the word for today is generalisation - I' m not saying you' re ignorant or anything like that , especially since you clearly wrote " to me" and " seemed" :)

Shadow of the Collosus ,Okami - the latest innovation in art direction and gameplay alike - both are considered to be almost revolutionary

Final Fantasy 12 - most reviewers say it' s a next gen RPG in beautiful , but current gen graphics,

God of War, MGS - Storytelling at it' s best and with awesome gameplay

Ofcourse generalisation is key, we both know that with you and Japaneese games :P

But Since Sony are japaneese, they all seem to star a little boy or something like that. Okay Ares isnt a boy. But still. Okay i dont like sony!

ORIGINAL: Silentbomber

I am not to sure WHY microsoft are even still in the Industry, all they have done is lost billions and have yet to see a return. Yep, they learned alot from the xbox, dont inlcude a hdd as standard, screw supporting the old console, screw backward complatlity, screw buying a remote just to watch dvds, screw everybody. We want your money, and we want you NINTENDO!, Sony are not competetion to us as we are allready out a year ahead of them, heh, us at microsoft would be surprized if the ps3 will even sell more than a million units.And We have never heard of the dreamcast.

In fact our only competeion is our refecltion in the mirror. oh. Hi there. Handsome.


the moral of the story: Microsoft will be bettered, they underestmate their comptetion and they love themselves.


Now, I must run, Nintendo is trying to make a new mario party game as a launch title for the wii!

LOL! I' m going to look past the extreme fanboyism of that post.

Of course they want money. Do you think Sony and Nintendo are any different? Whether you like it or not, every single company out there in the industry wants your money. Everything else comes second. Don' t for one second think that Microsoft cares about you. Don' t for one second think that Nintendo cares about you. Don' t for one second think that Sony cares about you. They don' t. All they want is for you to buy their product. This is the reality of the situation. This is business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naiive.

If you actually think about this from a business perspective (not a fanboy one) - Microsoft has done a lot of things right. Sure some things have gone poorly, but they have a definite and well thought out business plan.

-Microsoft are still in the industry even after losing money:
It' s not the easiest thing in the world to try and start your own product in an already established and saturated industry. Very few (in fact I can' t think of any) companies have the resources available to do this. The loss of money indicates that they' re in this for the long run. I think it' s very impressive to have gained an overall 30% market share with their first attempt.

-Not including a HDD in every unit: Reduce production costs.

-Stop supporting the old console: Well obviously MGS want to promote what' s new, not what' s old. They' d be stupid not to. There are still many Xbox games being released by 3rd party developers.

-Screw backwards compatibility: I agree that it' s quite lacking but they were never serious about this to begin with so you can' t expect it to be anything but a slapstick effort. Don' t see what the big deal is anyway - just use your old Xbox. By the time your old Xbox dies:
A) A newer better sequel will be available on X360
or
B) The backwards compatibilty list may be updated to support it.

I don' t think Microsoft underestimate their competition at all. They have their own business plan and are sticking to it. If they reacted to everything their competitiors did, they' d actually be letting them decide the fate of X360, not Microsoft. And this is something you don' t want.

I love it!

" Sony Fanboy! Take that! I hate sony fanboys! I hope they cry!!! muawahahaa!"

And you all are MS fanboys? Come on...why bash and hate soo much on a damn system? Who cares about the damn system.

As posted earlier I am a gamer and I play games....Sure I like a certain type of games which makes me go over to a certain console....for example, Playstation. I don' t really like the RPG' s that are on Xbox or Gamecube, not because they suck...because there aren' t that many, nor are there very many unique games that take a different path on the Xbox. If companys from Sony go over there then I would go but from what I see on MS in the future is fighting games....first person shooters up the ass(since americans are soo damn good at them it seems) and sports. Yay. Where the hell is Shenmue when that came out on Sega?....Where is Shadow of the Collosus(sp) for MS? Or ICO? I consider most of those games revolutionary as a gamer(and I can' t wait to see these develepors develope for PS3). Would I play them if they were on the Xbox? Hell yea I would. I have my platform games I like, I have my sports games I like (Madden 95 SNES!!!) I have my first person shooters I like(PC mostly) but it seems that MS fanboys...yea that' s you guys who are wanting for sony to go down....get soo hyped up when certain games are called for the 360 and say " It' s a sure win with these tittles" It' s soo pathetic...the funny thing that people don' t realise is that Sony fanboys are not the ones who are scared...It' s MS fanboys that' s scared and make such things a big deal helping their doubts that they chose a good system(leaving the demo things they are showing for PS3 because we all know developers are more important then stupid demos and not to mention what they get paid for just to show off something impressive...the real work comes later)
So you say that MS has all this new impressive stuff like Unified online gaming....and soo forth and that Sony is copying them now....Ok let' s take a look at a little history(from the top of my head)

Atari came out

Nintendo said.." Wow, nice, since we are Japanese we want to copy something and make it better" Bam..copy with better stuff of course.

Turbo Graph 16 did something better then Nintendo but too expensive for its time...it died..

Sega came into the game(maybe they came earlier but whatever) Took a different approach but still it' s a gaming console with a controler.....Console and controler..key words.

Then SNES beat Sega because of it' s support compared to Sega and developers seemed to like the modes that SNES had...great, it was an upgraded Nintendo.

Sony was born and broke off from Nintendo taking the important things they learned from Nintendo and IMPROVING them..copying? sure. Developers liked the system, atleast, from what I could tell in their games, they were awesome.

Nintendo tried to get in the ball game but failed with the 64...(I liked Super Mario 64 dammit ><)

Nintendo may not have failed with the Gamecube but it seems they toned down things a bit and kept people that really liked their games...Nintendo I doubt cares soo much about hardware anymore as you can tell with the new Wii thingamagidder.

Sony releases the PS2 and an upgrade to PS1...UPgrades rock. No matter what you say if you own a PS2 and have played soo many games from different software develepors could you care less what Sony said when they launched the console? Developers complained about the system but that didn' t stop them from making great games..

MS was the observer and said " We want a piece of the pie..." What was their MOdel to look upon and " copy" ?....you guessed it folks...(IF you didn' t guess you might be more a MS fanboy then you thought) the successful Sony....They copied and IMPROVED the system but their developer support held them back.

Sorry for all the writting just to come to the conclusion.....Who cares who did it first or who' s doing it better...They will copy each other back and forth because who the hell can resist going to the things that work? Huh? Nobody can resist, well atleast, not these companies.

So go play some revolutionary games or due some research...Nintendo and Sony have some of the best developers developing for their systems. Unique and different games come out on their system(That is if you are willing to try something new or just play the same old Shoot em up games)
I could be wrong also....Overnight all those developers could switch over to MS....But it' s not the console that will make their games better...It' s them who will improve on them and try different things.

Sure there are good games like Halo...but halo isn' ;t the best. I' m still and Unreal Tournament for PC gamer...It' s not very revolutionary when it' s been done before right? heh....Halo fanboys come bash! I love it...(Even though when I want to do a deathmatch with my friends I do play Halo)

So look at the uniqueness of the developers and follow them. Stop wasting your time to see certain fanboys die. Because think about it....Fanboys of...what? a console? a developer? One thing I like about Sega fanboys in this forum is they are happy to follow their games onto different platforms....What I don' t like about them is when they go to a playtform they hate(Mostly Sony)....Who the hell cares dammit? I can' t stress that enough...You want to play the game right? How can you be a fanboy of a console? I just don' t get it I guess.

Think of it as MTV....Xbox 360 = MTV. They play the same stuff over and over again. That' s what I see their games being like......There' s always that occasional exception...but how many of those are there?

I can' t think of Sony as anything because I personally don' t care about Sony themselves. They are weird. They demand certain things and developers just nod their heads, in one ear and out the other, and go do whatever they please with their games...Sony complains....Developer becomes big....Sony later accepts. Weird cycle for them. And I bet you fanboys are soo damn tired of seing that...stop paying attention and just play the games. Buy your consoles and don' t hate because that turns off your gaming experience. You won' t play a PS3 game because you hate the PS3 soo much yet the game could be a game you would truly like....But since you hate soo much you will probably never play that great game....OH well, your loss.(Same goes for Sony soo called ' fanboys' hating Xbox)

Throw out the notion of fanboys of consoles because they only exist so they can back up their games that are on them...The games people..The games!!!!!!!!! But not the same recycled genre on one console.....Learn to cycle through the genres MS and you will have my THumbs up.

Sony - stop making such demands and big hypes. Your games rock not you. Thumbs up if they ever give huge props to their developers....I mean serious props.

Nintendo - Stop going back and forth with your weird ideas. Your games rock but your ideas don' t make them great. Give them a better system to work with not some weird toys.

I like all these companies and I hate them at the same time =) I won' t call myself a fanboy of Sony. But I do like their games that' s why I own a lot of them. If I had an Xbox I would own 3 games. If I had a 360 I would own about 2 games. (I have friends who are rich enough to buy those conosles so I played mostly all of their games). Variety. I like variety I guess so I play them all but only chose the ones to stick with and Sony has the most i stick with. If MS had em I' d probably be there.

One last example.....Don' t get me wrong about this, but Fable is a great game....But if you use that as " Fable is the greatest RPG ever made and it' s on the Xbox" you absolutely have not tried other games out there on different consoles. If you say " Final Fantasy beats Fable" can you truly say that without playing Fable? And if you did play Fable did you play it all the way through?....It' s a pity that you justify why it' s a good game because of what console it is in. Pity indeed.

some valid points there, however I see a Majik post comming somehow!

just like to clear up a point aobut the trrusty thrust MD / Genesis / Snes debate..

Then SNES beat Sega because of it' s support compared to Sega..

in Japan. In the rest of the world it was even stevens!

Remember this thread was about the west originally.

The snes sold 31 million in the west
The MD / Genesis sold 28 million in the west

In Japan the Snes outstripped the MD by more than 12 million units. And remember you have to consider the age of these consoles was massive, considering the MD was based on 1988 hardware and the snes on 1990.

This sales pattern will probably be the case with the wii / ps3 vs. the 360 in Japan, but as I said this thread is about the west.

Incidentally the UK was the MD' s stronghold, consitently outselling the snes until its demise due to unuslally good marketing each festive period.

If only we could have that close a race today, it would be so good for gamers

Also, I think prior to your post that there were some pertinent points. This IS a turning point for sony, as prior to this they were an innovator in the games market. Yes sure there are similarities between consoles, but at the end of the day there are only so many ways to get a game to a TV screen.. but this is the first time as far as im concerned ive seen sony drop the ball. They are playing a tit for tat spec war with a console that has been out a year or more previous.

Also I dont think this is a bash sony / nintendo fanboy thread as most of us own both of them too, but what you are seeing on here is that people want MS to succeed, to at least give sony a reminder they are not themselves god, because it will benefit us all.

Even at the launch of PS2 when the dev kits came round the office some sony reps were complacent they had done enough with the brand that people would keep buying PSX' s forever. That made my stomach churn. They all want our money, and the more balanced the 3 are the more the innovative games will get the edge over the fps ripoffs etc.. im all for competition me

Where is Shadow of the Collosus(sp) for MS? Or ICO? I consider most of those games revolutionary as a gamer(and I can' t wait to see these develepors develope for PS3)

Mmmm they are Sony develop games. So they wont make it to the Xbox, unfortunately, but i mean, those are the only guys Sony preduce that are actually worth looking into. Games on Xbox is just as varied as on the Playstation, and all the crappy sports titles are availeble on that too.

I dislike sony, because sony disrespects the gamer with their bullshit

I see a life cycle!

Company launches hardware, tried to befrend gamers, tries hard with hardware and software - say Dreamcast or NES. This continues with more effort until the market share is approaching that of the leader.

If we then take the PS2 as the example of a Brand' s golden era for Sony (or the MD for Sega) console it was when at it' s peak.

After that there is a getting lost period - the Saturn / PS3, where nothing is set in stone, and its really down to the competition. If sony the then newboy hadnt launched the PSX the saturn would have dominated, in the same way that if MS wasnt having a go now that Sony would be getting complacent etc..etc..

What im saying is, no one really knows what the future holds, but after a great success with a console, it gets harder every other generation to acheive the same success with a continued brand... You guys telling me now your excited about a PS4? Nah, things will change!

Anyways I digress, If people loved sony / sega / MS / Nin etc.. as in they REALLY loved them, they would want them to get their ass handed to them occasionally, becuase it keeps the focus on great games rather than great tech specs!

Thats why the DC was such a fantastic, innovatice, and ahead of its time console. It was a reaction to the complacentness of the tech spec battle that was the Saturn! And none of that means that any console doesnt have the right to be in the hearts of a gamer!

Heres the thing, if you could save Sega gaming history or Sony what would you choose?

Microsoft have had a gaming division for a long time. It was established and was putting out PC games before Sony decided to enter the console market with PlayStation.

When console games broke into the mainstream Microsoft decided to put out their own console. It' s never been about money and anybody who thinks that it is and that Microsoft expect to make the kind of profits that Sony have done, -- well, you' re an idiot!

Microsoft is a big company. Much, much, much bigger than Sony and they have an awful lot more money than Sony do. That however wasn' t going to last without Xbox. Sony already have their feet in the music and movie business as well as electronics, -- so how long would it have been before they moved into software development, specifically operating systems and Office-esque applications?!

Sony were a growing threat in Microsoft eyes and they didn' t mind spending and losing a lot of money to keep them at bay. If you look at Xbox and it' s losses per console, it looks bad right?! Well to Microsoft they weren' t losing money but rather buying marketshare, and to come out of the gates and make the impact that they did was quite a feat.

Sony never had any REAL competition with Playstation. Saturn bombed quickly and N64 only really managed to get a relatively hardcore fanbase who were happy to pay the high prices for Nintendo games. Playstation established Sony in the market and made them bankable for publishers which is why many companies didn' t leave their side when Xbox and Gamecube were launched.

Microsoft' s move has worked though and Sony don' t have the resources or money it would take to challenge them on their own ground. Sony have decided to take a different approach and have put pretty much everything they have got into the development of CELL and Blu-Ray in an effort to create the weapons neede to take over your living room.

Sony don' t care about the kids that play the games on their consoles, they are interested in the lifestyle consumers who are willing to spend lots of money to have their devices -- and Blu-Ray is a perfect example.

Sony are very good at marketing but litle else. They haven' t really made games development easier, -- they' ve hindered it if anything by makingtheir consoles hard to develop for, and PS3 has some STUPID problems that can' t be fixed and will have to be worked around. Microsoft on the other hand have only recieved praise for making development easier and easier development maeans faster development cycles which in turn means you don' t have to wait as long for games.

As far as games themselves go, -- with the exception of ICO, the only games that have actually meant anything are Shadow of the Colossus and God of War and they came well into the consoles life. I think that Sony have realised that they need more IP' s and will put out more this time around, if only because developers that were once soley working for them are now putting games out on Microsoft platform too.

I don' t really care right now about the Eastern market. I' m looking just at the situation in the West and i see Microsoft as having some major advantages this time around and i see the potential for them to become the Western market leader.

The closer they are in terms of marketshare the more coompetative they will be and it' s that kind of ongoing rivalry that produces the best games and games are what i' m interested in.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on


When console games broke into the mainstream Microsoft decided to put out their own console. It' s never been about money and anybody who thinks that it is and that Microsoft expect to make the kind of profits that Sony have done, -- well, you' re an idiot!

Microsoft is a big company. Much, much, much bigger than Sony and they have an awful lot more money than Sony do. That however wasn' t going to last without Xbox. Sony already have their feet in the music and movie business as well as electronics, -- so how long would it have been before they moved into software development, specifically operating systems and Office-esque applications?!

Eaxctly I totally disagree with the idea some people have of microsoft being as bad as sony when it comes down to trying to make money. In my opinion it' s about halting the growth of your opponent from a corporal stance, sony has been dipping their fingers into a lot of pies some of which hasn' t worked well whereas microsoft I think is genuine in trying to out do them in the console industry by providing their customers with quality and varied games amongst other things.
And to be honest I reckon they' ve started the ball rolling so to speak with the x box they' ve gained market shares, recogintion and support that many have had to work for, for a long while.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

Sony don' t care about the kids that play the games on their consoles, they are interested in the lifestyle consumers who are willing to spend lots of money to have their devices -- and Blu-Ray is a perfect example.

Again I agree iv' e been reiterating that if you look at sony' s outline and planning with their consoles like I said before it' s more products that benifits them at the expense of the consumer than the other way round, not just that but I think sony' s more interested in movies and ' taking ouver your living room' than making good games, to me that' s always been evident.

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

Microsoft' s move has worked though and Sony don' t have the resources or money it would take to challenge them on their own ground. Sony have decided to take a different approach and have put pretty much everything they have got into the development of CELL and Blu-Ray in an effort to create the weapons neede to take over your living room.

That also reiterates exactly how serious, efficient and learning they are if a relatively new comer manages to not only keep up but make improvements, i addition they' ve made themselves look a bit amateur (imo) by making very silly mistakes i.e the time it took them to sort the licenses for blu-ray amongst other things.

I don' t get where this thread has come to, what is it about? Is it the usuall Sony VS Microsoft battle again?
Or is it about why Microsoft has entered the industry? What are you discussing here?

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

I don' t get where this thread has come to, what is it about? Is it the usuall Sony VS Microsoft battle again?
Or is it about why Microsoft has entered the industry? What are you discussing here?

I think it' s more, or supposed to be rather focused on how microsoft' s momentum in the west is going and it' s potential not about sony vs them ( I think).

Oh I see. How come I read more anti-Sony comments than I read pro-MS comments then?
Whatever, this is boring. Go play a game...

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Oh I see. How come I read more anti-Sony comments than I read pro-MS comments then?

Really I had' nt noticed.

It' s not about being anti-Sony or pro-Microsoft. It' s about looking at what is coming with this next generation and discussing where it' s going.

One of the highlights of my year (games-wise) will be the release of the " official" Playstation emulator for PSP. I think that in the West that will give Sony even more of an advantage over Nintendo and i think it will make waves in Japan too.

But when i sit to look at everything we know about Playstation 3 and it' s development, there are things that Sony have made drastic u-turns on that don' t exactly instill me with confidence.

There are a lot of unknowns right now but one thing we do know is that Microsoft has found itself with much more developer and publisher support than it had with Xbox. Companies like Sqarue-Enix have announced games for the console and have said that more will be announced at E3 and for Square-Enix to develop games for Microsoft console is proof that things are changing.

LOL! I' m going to look past the extreme fanboyism of that post.

Of course they want money. Do you think Sony and Nintendo are any different? Whether you like it or not, every single company out there in the industry wants your money. Everything else comes second. Don' t for one second think that Microsoft cares about you. Don' t for one second think that Nintendo cares about you. Don' t for one second think that Sony cares about you. They don' t. All they want is for you to buy their product. This is the reality of the situation. This is business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naiive.

If you actually think about this from a business perspective (not a fanboy one) - Microsoft has done a lot of things right. Sure some things have gone poorly, but they have a definite and well thought out business plan.

-Microsoft are still in the industry even after losing money:
It' s not the easiest thing in the world to try and start your own product in an already established and saturated industry. Very few (in fact I can' t think of any) companies have the resources available to do this. The loss of money indicates that they' re in this for the long run. I think it' s very impressive to have gained an overall 30% market share with their first attempt.

-Not including a HDD in every unit: Reduce production costs.

-Stop supporting the old console: Well obviously MGS want to promote what' s new, not what' s old. They' d be stupid not to. There are still many Xbox games being released by 3rd party developers.

-Screw backwards compatibility: I agree that it' s quite lacking but they were never serious about this to begin with so you can' t expect it to be anything but a slapstick effort. Don' t see what the big deal is anyway - just use your old Xbox. By the time your old Xbox dies:
A) A newer better sequel will be available on X360
or
B) The backwards compatibilty list may be updated to support it.

I don' t think Microsoft underestimate their competition at all. They have their own business plan and are sticking to it. If they reacted to everything their competitiors did, they' d actually be letting them decide the fate of X360, not Microsoft. And this is something you don' t want.

Yes i have to agree with you, I acted.. rashy. Dont get me wrong, i am not a Sony fanboy, just got sick of the sony bashing that goes on here sometimes.

anyway, back to your points.

You got admit, the xbox did not go as planned, I am sure a compnay never plans to make a negative return when designing a new console, but thats what happened, and it is happening again with the 360. Yes they have lowered those costs by not making the hdd as standard, and they reliy on Live to repay them. But not everybody who own a 360 are on live, which Microsoft dosent like, Especially since nearly 70% of every ds owner managed to get online with Mario Kart and the other 2 titles. I think Microsoft have a few things to learn from Nintendos [and possibley Sonys] online plan. People hate to pay for things. The reason why Nintendo was so succesfull online was because it was a).free b).quick and easy to set up c).fun to play [but destopryed the gaming on the go thing, sitting beside your wireless connection isnt ' on the go. ... anyway back to my point]. people hate hassle too. If it gives them more than 10 mintutes bother, people tend to give up. Microsoft can learn from Nintendos example, and yes, they have given out that free xbox live gold for a weekend thing. But should some Certain games be made free on live? say budget games? that would rock. I dont want to pay monthly fees, for anything. Its not worth it in the end, if you can play the game in better resloution and for free on your computer.

Sonys online plan is yet to be fully shown to the public, but the fact sony said at gdc its free, makes it exeremly attractive. They can afford to do this if blue ray takes off right. and Microsoft would learn from them too if done as they want it. Thwey could screw up.

Why am i talking about online serives? i dont know, i think i started to rant. Go me.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Microsoft isn' t loosing anything by having a free membership and another level that offers more the other platform' s services aren' t as good as xbl' s gold service to be honest it' s not far from xbl silver and the fact that a lot of people actually have gold membership means they' ve already made more than their competitors on online service.
Also I very much doubt that sony will be offering the same thing xbl gold offers for free I think it' s going to be just like the gold/silver service...to be honest I don' t think they need to learn anything from anyone about improving their online service it doesn' t take a genius to give things out for free what microsoft is doing is enhancing their online play and content and giving people some of the experience for free with a temptation of what the whole package entails.

but the key issue is that you have to pay, I think that sucks. The Sony one has memborship fees for demos, tailers, etc. but not for multiplayer.

Just say, Would you mind ads for a free xbox live accont?

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!