Sony say they expect to take a huge loss!

Reuters reports Sony announced today in Japan they expect their game division to suffer a $877 million USD (the equivalent of $100 billion yen) loss due to start up costs associated with PS3 over the next year. Clearly the worldwide launch later this year must be playing a factor. How the company expects to recover, however, is unclear.

Production costs on the CELL and Blu-ray technologies will obviously come down over the years, but Sony doesn' t have much wiggle room in pricing PS3 if they want to remain competitive with Xbox 360, especially considering Microsoft may very likely institute a price drop around PS3' s launch in November.

Sony stock holders must be sweating bullets.

Hahahahahahaha...

http://today.reuters.com/investing/financeArticle.aspx?type=marketsNews&storyID=2006-04-27T064317Z_01_TKV002652_RTRIDST_0_TECH-JAPAN-SONY-GAME.XML

Yes,but they also make around 10-20 billion dollar each year...

So...
ofc a lot of those money are invested and paid to their 150.000 workers.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

And it' s their choice to take that loss - that means they want to pump PS3 as much as they can with no cut' s - risking a huge loss.

This is actually great for gamers.

It could be THE END for Sony this time is something goes wrong , but it most likely won' t - there' s a great interview with japanese industry analyst on gamespot and he tells some thigs I didn' t know - like why 360 isn' t selling so well and how people are comfortable with waiting for PS3.

Microsoft' s profit has risen 13%.

For the three-month period ending March 31, 2006, the company had income of $10.9 billion, which yielded it $2.98 billion in profits. That was a 13 percent increase in profits from the same period in 2005, which saw it take in $2.56 billion profitwise.

the console' s " life-to-date attach in the US through March for software and peripherals was 4.5 and three per console, respectively, higher than any other gaming console at this point in its lifecycle."

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6148512.aspx

Now while Microsoft lose $126 per console, Sony will lose even more and take a bigger financial hit.



Anyway, i couldn' t find the article you mentioned. Do you have a link?

I think sony is testing the water with the price to see people' s reaciton ..by dropping the hint about what it might cost in europe then retracting then this week then retracting. I think they still are very unsure and when e3 comes it might stil not be final. But I think even if they launch at the same price of the 360 they' ll still be in huge trouble and if they do that microsoft won' t have any quams in hitting a price drop to reciprocate.

Oh yes, if sony goes the ghost of isao okawa will finally be able to rest.

ORIGINAL: whiteguysamurai

Oh yes, if sony goes the ghost of isao okawa will finally be able to rest.

Nice.

Yo Majik - that' s the one - good stuff:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6148476.aspx

Oh ok. Now i get you. Sales in Japan!

Yeah, i think Microsoft are screwed in Japan, but they have a genuine opportunity to dominate in the west. Much depends on Sony right now but they are still making some massive mistakes when it should have been so very easy for them.

People who were complaining about Microsoft having to emulate Xbox games and talking about hopw Sony won' t have to emulate everything and how their backwards compatability would be perfect now look stupid. Sony ARE having to emulate through software to help the PS3 tech lose a few more pounds and fit into it' s nice, yet still big, shiny case.

It' s on them to reduce manufacturing costs VERY quickly and make their Live-esque service work as well as proving that Blu-Ray is NEEDED. Otherwise i can' t see them being as successful as they hope to be.

I wonder if they' ll have playable games at E3.

People who were complaining about Microsoft having to emulate Xbox games and talking about hopw Sony won' t have to emulate everything and how their backwards compatability would be perfect now look stupid. Sony ARE having to emulate through software to help the PS3 tech lose a few more pounds and fit into it' s nice, yet still big, shiny case.

Seriously though,who cares if it' s emulated if it works 100%?

People wouldn' t mind emulation on 360 if it actually worked - it clearly doesn' t for most of those 200 mentioned titles.For me it' s a fuckin lie - and I understand people who are pissed of cause they wanted to play some favourite Xbox titles.

If Sony can emulate both PSX and PS2 perfectly then they are the good guys - doesn' t matter how they do it.

as proving that Blu-Ray is NEEDED

oh it is trust me:)

When they demoed Getaway for PS3 they said that Blue-ray storage makes it possible to stream so much HD Content with so much detail.

Why do you think Square released FF7 for the PSX? Storage for all the 2D backgrounds was necessary (3 CD' s) just as much as for FMV.

Higher Bit-rates of sound are possible and if they want to have anything in 1080p then those textures and movies will take a lot of space.

I wouldn' t worry if I were you - games won' t cost (consumers) more and I' m sure they' ll find something to put on those discs.

HD player is a cool addition -360 would' ve been alright in this area if it could upscan DVD' s to 720p , which I hope PS3 will be capable of.

I don' t get it Gangsta sometimes you sound like you hate Sony and sometimes you sound like you love them, such as now... I' m confused.
Anyway, I feel really sorry for the Sony stock holders.

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

I don' t get it Gangsta sometimes you sound like you hate Sony and sometimes you sound like you love them, such as now... I' m confused.

Agreed. It' s strange.

Anyway, I feel really sorry for the Sony stock holders.

Well it' s those guys who will determine the price.

Anyway, I feel really sorry for the Sony stock holders.

Dont. Sony are only selling at that price for one reason. The blue ray. the 360 only plays second fiddle to the real competition, hd dvd vs. BR. If sony sells millions of units by the years end [which i have no doubt they will] they will make a huge loss, but that is only pennies to what they can earn from the blue ray format, as millions of people now have a spanky new Br player. Sony will reap the rewards of createing the new standard, easily makeing up for the loss of the ps3 untill that itself becomes profitable. I have no doubt the ps3 will sell for 300. Sony stock holders are in for one hell of a ride!

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

The PS3 will not be the deciding factor for Blu Ray. The gaming market won' t play a very big rol at all in how the Blu Ray/ HD-DVD war turns it. It' s gonna be the average consumer that determines that. It' s going to be up to the everyday consumer that goes out and buys movies to determine what wins. If they have the choice between two versions they are going to go with the cheaper one... HD-DVD. The movie market sells far more movies than the gaming market does games. It' s up to that market to decide.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

I don' t get it Gangsta sometimes you sound like you hate Sony and sometimes you sound like you love them, such as now... I' m confused.

Yea gangsta you weirdo.

Anyway that aside I think if they sell it at 300 it will be a bit middle ground as in a lot of people might buy it but people who don' t know much would be more hesitant and they loose more on cost for production. Now if they raise it to 400 they loose less money but loose some avid fan based buyers but i' m really interested to see the final conclusion...knowing sony though they' ll probably say 300 at e3 then come 5 days before launch price reviewal 400 (nah even they can' t do that).

:)

I hate Sony for all the bad things they do - LIES LIES LIES , CHEAP PARTS , LIES LIES LIES , FAKE HYPE FAKE HYPE FAKE HYPE

I like PS2 lately (it was a disappointement at the beginning) and play many cool games on it.

I don' t care about PSP

when it comes to PS3 I give them the benefit of the doubt plus I hate those lies (killzone).

Both MS and Sony aren' t really as cool/honest as I' d like them to be but Sony is way too arrogant.

Rampage you probably don' t remember that PS2 seriously boosted DVD sales - it was a significant boost in sales , that' s what they count on this time.

It' s one of the main goals PS3 has - help Blue Ray establish large userbase in next gen DVD war.Why do you think they want to have such expensive drive?

80 mln Blu ray drives all over the world would be quite a nice advantage over HD DVD

Anyway Sony sux but PS has the monopoly so I' d love for it to be as good as possible.

Rampage you probably don' t remember that PS2 seriously boosted DVD sales - it was a significant boost in sales , that' s what they count on this time.

It' s not really the same though because we already have DVD' s and for the majority they are good enough.

Think just how cheap the advent of a next-gen DVD format will make the current generation DVD' s. You' ll be able to have huge collections (i already do) and it won' t cost an arm and a leg.

Sony ARE going to attempt to use PS3 to move Blu-Ray into peoples homes, but since it requires a HDTV to get the most from the format and most HDTV' s cost a bomb, only the people who can afford to spend £500+ will actually benefit.

You may say that the same thing stands for 360 as far as games are concerned, needing a HD display to play in HD, but 360 will be cheaper than PS3, so Sony are basically forcing you to buy a product that you MAY not use to it' s fullest, just because they want to ram Blu-Ray down your throat.

It' s the same for developers. It' s Blu-Ray or nothing for PS3 games and it costs more to both manufacture and develop on. So either a developer can make the same game for both 360 and PS3 but make more profit on the 360 version, or they can raise the price of the PS3 version. Interesting since Microsoft are expected to drop their game price back down to £39.99 (or whatever you pay for a new current gen game).

80 mln Blu ray drives all over the world would be quite a nice advantage over HD DVD

You expect PS3 to sell 80 million units?

Well I for one was never interested in DVD. I never had a tv that was any good so what was the point, had lots of VCR' s in the house, why switch for the same films?

Eventually after SEGA announced they were ditching the DC, I bought a PS2 and lo and behold I suddenly had a DVD player. Now while my main concern was for games, I took the chance to buy DVD' s as now I had a player (at no extra cost - as I saw it, anyway). So I got some DVD' s which I probably wouldn' t have got had I not got a PS2 (or much later, XBOX).

So In line with what Gangsta is saying, I agree 110%. Having a BR player in PS3 is going to do a great deal for the format winning the HD format war. Sure you might say, paying for for tech. you might now want/need, but lets face it.. Once people have one I guess a reasonable percentage of people will take the opportunity to buy HD BR movies.
As for your argument about the HDTV thing

HDTV to get the most from the format and most HDTV' s cost a bomb, only the people who can afford to spend £500+ will actually benefit

I think your being too short-sighted. Sure for those people who don' t have HDTV right now (If they are not simply because of HD console gaming), will at some point of the PS3' s 5 (as dog sony dog) year life span. Then they have a BR player and can actually use it (And their PS3' s as it was supposed to).
So whether it is about adoption of the HD formats, well a lot of video gamers are into new tech anyway, so they have HDTV' s, and would probably want to use the new format. But both formats wont instantly be picked up and leaving DVD for dead, but with substantial amount of potential BR users out there, I' d think film studios would favour BR over HD-DVD.


Besides I thought sony said the point of BR is that it was future proof, beyond what HD-DVD offerred due to the capacity of the discs. It' s a long term battle... The PS3 with BR is good for Sony, and if it works as I think it will, great for consumers. Because now we wont have to shell out for another player.

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

Think just how cheap the advent of a next-gen DVD format will make the current generation DVD' s. You' ll be able to have huge collections (i already do) and it won' t cost an arm and a leg.

HEll yeah :)

80 mln units -I think that' s what Sony wishes for and since gaming is getting bigger and bigger I think it' s possible.

thing is if everybody allready has a blue ray player, they are not going to go and buy a new hd dvd player that costs the same as the ps3 itself. Since they have a blue ray player, they might as well use it. Just like the ps2 and dvd.

I just hope they have much better blue ray playing software than the ps2 one. I am fairly sure they will.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Valid points, yet there are many people out there that do not want a video game player with their blue ray player or vice versa. My father and quite a few other people I know dislike using the gaming consoles as a movie player. Instead, they go and get DVD players. Go figure. That said, companies should not expect this mentality to change overnight, and no, they do NOT like buying extra peripherals to get game consoles to provide a regular DVD player experience. I' m looking at you in particular, M$.

The early rumours have the PS3 pegged at $599 U.S. That is around $800 CAD! There is no way I' m spending that much for a PS3, in particular at launch. If Sony really wants me to buy, their lineup must be huge in such a short time frame. Ask me now, and the priority consoles are Nintendo Wii, X-Box 360, and then PS3. Mind you, if I get the money in a month or two, I' ll get the 360 first... but wait, M$ announced smaller CPUs for ' 07 360 models. Less fan noise! I' ll bide my time, patiently.

You wa Shock!!!

did you not hear of the surposed 322 euro launch price of the ps3? not 100% oficall, but its a smart move from sony. And good news for us!

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

322 Euro? Euros are more valuable than US dollars, aren' t they?

USD>CAD, therefore the visible price here is higher than in the States.

Still, this is incredible if true for you guys in Europe, since traditionally the true cost of systems there were more than the equivalent North American prices.

Lemme do conversion now...

Thank you Google!
322 Euro = 404.3998 USD = 454.059874 CAD

*blink*

Retrieving X-Box 360 price from Bestbuy.ca
$499.99 + tax.
Lesse... Canadian tax = 15% = 7% GST + 8% PST.
$574.99 CAD

*blink blink*

versus 454.06 + tax.
$522.17 CAD

You wa SHOCK!
" Omae wa mo shindeiru!"
*My head explodes*

If that price applied here, it would be $52.82 CHEAPER to buy a PS3.
Mind you, I don' t believe for a second that this is the North American price. It will be a minimum of the 360' s price. Still... wow. I think my console priority will shift to favour Sony again if this is the final cost.

You wa Shock!!!

it' s quite possible - 399 might be the price especially if you consider that Sony expects a huge loss (billion fuckin dollars!!) - maybe they' re going to loose a lot of cash on each PS3 sold?

MS loses 126 $ on each 360 - 360 sales are better = bigger losses for MS - that' s what we' re seeing right now.

While MS want' s to cover these losses later when production costs lower and there are some nice incomes from licensing, Sony has a bigger plan - if they succed in pushing Blue-ray forward with PS3 they will not only cover their losses , they will fuckin OWN Next GEN DVD market.

It' s funny how stable and winning company - Sony - takes such a huge risk on so many levels (DVD division,PS3 crew) after first move from MS.

Ironically their actions (Sony) are exactly the same as those they had when DC came out - " make them want to wait, at all cost" .It' s a proven strategy and once again - it works.

Yeah, but Microsoft can afford it.

If Ps3 launches at a realistic price of:

- $399 in the US

- 400 Euros

- £299 in the UK

Then yeah, Sony will be taking a bigger loss than Microsoft is at the moment ($126). But you guys are thinking in just 1 dimension. If Sony launch at $399 (whatever), then Microsoft will drop 360 by $100.

It' d be $399 for a PS3 or $299 for a 360, maybe $249. And if Microsoft make Xbox Live Gold free...

Heck, by the time Sony comes out, Microsoft will be ready to release the batch with smaller CPUs, bringing quieter, and cheaper, 360s to market. They will realistically be able to drop the price without increasing the amount lost per console too much, therefore, a $100 price drop, while being somewhat unlikely, is still possible.

Live Gold for free? Keep dreaming... man, what a dream.

You wa Shock!!!

actually price of 299 vs 399 might give consumers reasons to believe that 360 is less powerful - it happened once , with GameCube

It sure is great to be able to get it for 299 though

while being somewhat unlikely, is still possible.

It actually is very likely to happen - it' s rumoured on gamestop and MS rumours always turn out to be true :)

In the words, and voice, of Mr. Burns:

" Excellent!"

The 360, spec-wise, is slightly less impressive, but really, it is not that big a difference for most. You are right that consumers WILL think 360 is weaker. Then again, if a so-called weak console can crank out RE4, I don' t think it matters much.

Time to save a grand just for the point where that scenario does come true. I' m already saving quite a bit, and I' m currently working from home. Therefore, I can be on the boards (although not as persistently as I am today) and earn $ at the same time. So nice.

I' m glad Sony is taking Microsoft' s X-Box (and Nintendo' s Wii in Japan) so seriously. I don' t like breaking the bank to buy just one thing.

You wa Shock!!!

Anybody saying 360 is less impressive spec-wise than PS3 will incur my wrath. It' s not as clear as people seem to think and it' s certainly not how Sony would like you to think.

When PS3 launches, 360 will have Mass Effect, Gears of War and Too Human already out with RE5 and others on the way. Sony won' t have stuff of that quality, if only because 360 developers will have had a year to get the most out of the machine, -- but if 360 has nicer looking games at christmas AND is $100 cheaper, what do you think the mob will do?!

but if 360 has nicer looking games at christmas AND is $100 cheaper, what do you think the mob will do?!

Buy a PS3??

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

Yeah, people never follow logic. Besides, when people will buy a console for their kids they' ll think:
" Hmm, does my kid want this new thing that' s very expensive that has the same name as another popular machine or does he/she want that thing that' s been out for a year already which probably makes it technically inferior (I' m a parent, I don' t read gaming magasines so I don' t know that the PS3 isn' t much more powerful than the 360)?"
Or " Hmm, I want my kid to get the best so I better buy the new and expensive thing so he/she doesn' t get disappointed"
Now you' ll probably say that parents don' t want to waste to much money and are likely to choose a 360 because of that but, honestly, parents who can afford buying a 360 for their kids likely have enough money to buy them a PS3 if they wish.
If it comes down to the point where a parents decision will be determined by the price difference of the 360 and the PS3 then he/she probably isn' t in a position to buy one at all.
And that' s where the Revolution... sorry Wii, hopefully gets in the picture .

I see what you' re saying but one of the reasons Saturn failed was because of it' s higher pricetag.

If Microsoft lower the game price back to £39.99, or whatever you pay for a current gen title, and PS3' s games cost £50 or whatever, then it' s bound to have an effect.

Yes, but then again, the Saturn was considered to be much weaker than the PS1 simply due to Sonys hype. And I somehow get the feeling that the PS3 has gained a lot of hype .
Maybe we know the PS3 won' t outperform the 360 but regular people don' t know this and they probably never will until they' ve bought one.
I' m not saying a high price tag will have no negative effect on the PS3 sales but I don' t think that it will affect the difference between the PS3 and the 360 sales significantly.

But sega had parts to do with that though, with releasing first the mega cd, then around the same time as releasing the Saturn - or readying to at least, bringing out a new " 32bit" attachment for the megadrive.
It gave them a bad name especially as the add-ons were never really well supported or had any much of a lifespan.

Besides, the Sega Saturn released (from what I and many people I know seem to remember) at a VERY high price. And I doubt Sega' s brand was as well establish in the mainsteam as Sony, or PlayStation is now. (Besides kids these days get what they want, bunch of spoilt, horrid things). And Sony is so well known amoung children, they all have PS2' s and will think like.. " Xbox 360 looks so cool... wait holy crap there is a PS3 out (or coming out) 360 is so crap"
And some gamers might be put off due to the instant kill and shorter life span eXBOX, which is fair, I guess.

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

Ugh, the 32X was so bad. That by itself would tarnish Sega' s attempt at the Saturn. Addons are never cool. Why did they think that was prudent? Because Sonic & Knuckles, with its lock-on tech, was successful? Gimme a break!

Kids being spoiled - You had better believe it! Quite a portion of the new wave of kids believe they are entitled to everything they get and want. Whenever someone takes their things away, they throw tantrums or go to extremes. Honestly, the notion of entitlement brings about nasty, potentially illegal activities into their minds, prompting them to join gangs and... not that it is the fault of video games... I digress.

Sony is prepared to be competitive by taking the losses per console sold. If they did not want to be in this fashion of losing per console, they would have entered the next gen market already, to terrible results and high cost. By merely suggesting that they will take losses to keep prices competitive is like saying to the fan base " keep the money for when we arrive" . Personally though, I want both, eventually.

You wa Shock!!!

Sony will initially take a loss but if the PS3 becomes as successful as they wish for then the PS3 will probably be profitable in a couple of years.
Sony has a long term goal with the PS3.
I think that the inevitable success in Japan will be enough to keep them alive and if they manage to do a good job in other territories then they' ll definately walk out of the next-gen battle victorious, although with a slightly smaller market share than during the PS2 era.