what would blue ray be used for in games in your opinion??

all i could think of is this:


very long/huge games
High definition (duh)
Many languages (spoken)
many cut scenes (in CG if it has to be)
Demos of upcomping games from the same publisher or developer

Games collections in one disc but this time for (psone or ps2) ??

how about a MODE where there are commentaries of developers while you play,
the same thing like in DVD movies, i mean that would be cool to understand how developers thought about each sequence of the game you love...

well i can' t think/remember something else, anything you wanna share guys??

Square Enix CG cutscenes... Those will render Blu Ray obsolete in no time

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Unskippable tutorials!

very long/huge games?
Oblivion is certainly the proof that a DVD9 is more then enough to cover any type of game,isnt it?
However in the future,how about a spiderman game,that also include the new spiderman movie?
Its something that can happend.

Demos,well...
Then XBL is much better,since you can dl the demo when its out,and dont have to buy the game,thus making some demos exclusive,so i dont see that as a good thing,ofc some people doesnt have internet so...nvm it might be somethin for them then...But if they can afford a freaking ps3,they should have internet O_o??

Whats great about blu-ray is that,if you think about it,some xnox games had nes titls in them,well with blu-ray you could add some ps2 games,like as a collection box,and yes,it would be possible to add in ff1-ff12 or even up to ff13 or more in a single blu-ray.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

To be honest, things like BluRay are best for games like Shenmue. I would love it if Sega packed parts 1 and 2 together on one BluRay disc and included it with part 3, on it' s own BluRay disc (or 5).

Uncompressed Audio? (hmm now that I think about it - RAM wouldn' t allow to use those.

HD Cut-scenes (that' s for sure - this will take most of the space).

Cool bonus (DVD LIKE) features

Optional CG Endings.

I think there' s a need for that much space since textures (and everything else) in HD take a lot of space.

If ITagaki was that dissapointed with 360' s lack of HD-DVD - it means there' s a good use for it :)

I highly doubt that many games will come close to filling a Blu-Ray disc.

HD content may take up space, but 360' s games are DVD9 and not running in a much lower resolution to what PS3 will output.

CG will definately tak up a fair amount of space in games that use it, but the more recent trend is to use the ingame engine to render cutscenes since it' s not only quicker and more cost effective, but it also allows it to be done inhouse.

Since it' s going to be a region-free (i' ll believe it when it happens) medium for games, ...multiple audio tracks are a certainty, but unless it' s a really big game with tons of speech, i can' t see audio making a huge dent in available disc space.

Quez is right about Oblivion being a perfect example that the amunt of storage space available with DVD9 is more than enough for a massive game. I find it unlikely that there will be many games bigger/longer/whatever than Oblivion.

Textures/mapping tend to take up a decent amount of space, especially the kind used in next-gen games (that' d be bump/parallax/normal-mapping).

I don' t think that the games themselves NEED or will USE that kind of space. I think the space available will cause some developers to get very lazy with regard to compressing things. I think Sony are being childish to insist that developers use it, especially because the potential effect of developers using Blu-Ray is higher game price...

To be honest, things like BluRay are best for games like Shenmue. I would love it if Sega packed parts 1 and 2 together on one BluRay disc and included it with part 3, on it' s own BluRay disc (or 5).

That would be glorious!

Square Enix CG cutscenes... Those will render Blu Ray obsolete in no time

I have a dislike for CG, i find it very tacky. I really enjoyed Advent Chlildren, but as far as games go i think it' s daft.

The greatest cutscene ever was the entire Tanker level in MGS2!

CG videos was cool cause they looked so much better then the in-game looked like,but tbh,i rather want to stay in-game a whole game,we are in next gen.and with right dev(square-enix,bioware,mistwalker,konami and epic games) why even bother with CG videos? lets just stay in-game,that will make us stay in the game and have a better experience,and you could also forget physic or A.I in those sequence,and do something extra visual,so dont worry.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Well the extra space will allow devolpers to play around with bigger and shaper textures which would not fit in a full dvd. It complete gets rid of the worryies of devoplers about space. Nice Extras could be included in these discs like ps2 and ps1 games.

But Mainly the Devolpers are going to benifit from the Space.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

I still wonder why bethsead never talked about space problems when they made their 16squaremiles big world,with over 50 hours recorded voices to each of the 1500+ npc.
Or that the world is so beautiful that you need a 7800 to play at maxium,thus telling us how demanding this next gen game actually is.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Well the extra space will allow devolpers to play around with bigger and shaper textures which would not fit in a full dvd

This gen? I don' t think so!

Shit, there' s a limit y' know on just how sharp the textures can be, ...limited by the hardware they' re being rendered on.

Blu-Ray doesn' t offer anything but comfort for games developers. I don' t doubt that games WILL eventually need larger capacity discs than DVD9, but come on, 25GB, THIS gen?!

Only a FF7 HD next-gen remake would take up that kind of space!



Oh, and just going slightly off topic, ...the Blu-Ray movie region codes (since it' s only going to be region free for games) are different to the current DVD movie region codes.

The Blu-Ray one will be...


1 - United States, Canada, Mexico, South America, Japan and East Asia (excluding China)
2 - Europe and Africa
3 - China, Russia, India, Pakistan and all other countries

Which means that anybody with a Japanese machine in the US will still be able to play US Blu-Ray movies.

Erm, ...i can' t think of any African movies i would watch...

This gen? I don' t think so!

Shit, there' s a limit y' know on just how sharp the textures can be, ...limited by the hardware they' re being rendered on.

Blu-Ray doesn' t offer anything but comfort for games developers. I don' t doubt that games WILL eventually need larger capacity discs than DVD9, but come on, 25GB, THIS gen?!

Only a FF7 HD next-gen remake would take up that kind of space!

With dual layer they reach 50 gb :O
Its very bizzare.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I, personally, enjoy CG cut scenes. Warcraft III had SWEET cut scenes. I also like the CG movies that go along with the Team Ninja games. It does cost the developer a LOT to produce them, but I think it' s worth it if it' s done well.

As far as Blu-ray goes, I think it' s main advantage would be textures and audio. That' s one of the things about Oblivion that someone was complaining about. Low res textures in the distance. I think it' s probably a combination of storage space AND ram, but I don' t really know, ' cause I' m dumb.

The audio side would be sweet! How many hours of speech could you include with all that space!?

Also, could you imagine the jiggle physics that could be stored on one of those discs!! Aaahh! I can (and am!)

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

I think the space available will cause some developers to get very lazy with regard to compressing things.

Kind of like Neo Geo.

I dont think its a storage problem about those low texture,that you see if you look at something 100-200 m from you,and is on a mountain,cause if you look at the pc version,which was made before the 360,you realise that beath,if they dev a game with that high pc req,and a dvd player req,they also know that some extra gb wasn' t a problem for their consumers.
And once again,you never heard them complain about storage problem,thus i belive they hade gigs left to fill up.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

...i have always found the CG sequences in Final Fantasy to be my single most favourite moments...

...and have always wanted them to be able to code the whole game to that kind of stunning level....
...don' t think i have ever seen anyone else do CG just as well also......

...hey.... ..wasn' t FF' s famous CG sequences the reason that FF:The Spirits Within got made?...

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

Well...ff9 CG for ex was amazing or ff8 for that matter,but you have to realise that we played on a PSX,and this was like a toy story movie in quality,but...now with next gen,we can make BD into a cartoon movie :P in terms of quality O_o or atleast " cartoonish" to a true statement.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

With dual layer they reach 50 gb :O

I know, but it' s been confirmed that dual layered discs won' t come until much later, ...and the cost of producing them is higher too and so they would unlikely be used for games development anyhow!

It does cost the developer a LOT to produce them,

They' re hardly ever done inhouse, ...usually tendered to CG studios.

Low res textures in the distance

It IS a 1st gen title though, and there ARE more important things than hi-res mountainsides (the ONLY low-res textures i' ve seen).

You should note that the draw distances in GHost Recon are also large and there are NO lo-res textures to be found. Same applies to Far Cry Predator with it' s draw distance of 2KM!!!

The audio side would be sweet! How many hours of speech could you include with all that space!?

A damn lot! But speech heavy games generally aren' t the very best, ...i mean look at Snake Eater!

Also, could you imagine the jiggle physics that could be stored on one of those discs!! Aaahh! I can (and am!)

Breasticles!

Well...ff9 CG for ex was amazing or ff8 for that matter,but you have to realise that we played on a PSX,and this was like a toy story movie in quality,but...now with next gen,we can make BD into a cartoon movie :P in terms of quality O_o or atleast " cartoonish" to a true statement.

...does that mean that FFXIII for the PS3 (?) could look like FFX' s CG sequences in game?... ...really??.... .

...that would RULE!!!....

...has a new PS3 Final Fantasy been confirmed yet?....

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

Well,when having the best dev,and 1080p,well,prob :P
I dont know,might take them 1-2 ff before they do something that resemblse that.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Which means that anybody with a Japanese machine in the US will still be able to play US Blu-Ray movies.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! Too friggin sweet! Has this been finalized yet or is it still in the works?

Erm, ...i can' t think of any African movies i would watch...

Tarzan X: The Revenge




As far as CG goes, I like Namco CG way more than Square' s stuff for the simple reason that, from what I' ve seen, Namco' s CG characters tend to be better animated, at least to me. Square is great when it comes to creating awesome looking environments and cool looking character designs, but in motion, their characters tend to be CG representatives of the negative side effects of Botox. Their expressions barely ever seem to change to reflect different situations :p

Hell, look at Namco' s Ridge Racer gal, Reiko. Whenever you see her she' s usually winking, smiling, and walking around looking like a runway model who' s just loving life... Square' s characters ' almost' always look as if they just received some devastating news and are suffering from depression :p.

***runs for his life from Square fans!!***



(Square)
COME ON, CHEER UP! Everything' s going to be alright!!


(Namco)
JUST LOVIN LIFE!

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I just chatted some with my japanese friend,wtf? how did he get OB?
He must have dl it right? or do they ship english version of ob there?

look...

[01:27:30] yajika1030: Hi
[01:28:08] Don' t eat ye: Hello
[01:28:23] yajika1030: I played oblivion.
[01:28:50] yajika1030: It' s very real.
[01:29:31] Don' t eat ye: You have?
[01:29:35] yajika1030: Yes
[01:29:35] Don' t eat ye: i goty oit to my 360
[01:29:37] Don' t eat ye: itys kick ass
[01:29:39] Don' t eat ye: :P
[01:29:43] Don' t eat ye: i have everythong on maxium
[01:29:46] Don' t eat ye: looks awesome
[01:29:57] Don' t eat ye: I need to ask you something
[01:30:07] Don' t eat ye: Far East of Eden: Ziria
[01:30:12] Don' t eat ye: have you ever heard of a game called ziria?
[01:30:16] Don' t eat ye: Or anime or wtf it is?
[01:30:21] Don' t eat ye: some people claim its big in japan
[01:30:25] Don' t eat ye: and its a japanese 360 rpg game
[01:30:37] Don' t eat ye: it look horrible,but some people claim its
big in japan
[01:30:46] Don' t eat ye: and since your japanse and live in japan,you
know best :P
[01:32:14] yajika1030: I don' t know it.
[01:32:35] yajika1030: ah
[01:32:41] yajika1030: http://tengai.jp/pc/ten1/
[01:32:47] yajika1030: is it?
[01:33:57] Don' t eat ye: yes
[01:34:02] yajika1030: I heard it, but I don' t know next to nothing.
[01:34:06] Don' t eat ye: Far East of Eden: Ziria
[01:34:14] Don' t eat ye: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3hV6wvKJN0U
[01:34:21] Don' t eat ye: look at this BD video of upcoming 360 game
[01:34:27] Don' t eat ye: being made by sakaguchi-san who did FF serie
[01:34:30] Don' t eat ye: an akira
[01:34:33] Don' t eat ye: who created DBZ
[01:34:35] Don' t eat ye: look awesome!
[01:34:36] Don' t eat ye: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3hV6wvKJN0U
[01:35:19] Don' t eat ye: I palyed 20 hour in oblivion
[01:35:25] Don' t eat ye: 10 yesterday and 10 today
[01:35:30] Don' t eat ye: everyone i know plays oblivion
[01:35:33] Don' t eat ye: i play a knight :P
[01:35:37] Don' t eat ye: doing lot of sidequest
[01:35:51] Don' t eat ye: over 50 hours of recored voice dialog is in
the game
[01:35:59] Don' t eat ye: basically over 200 hours of gameplay
[01:36:05] yajika1030: I played for 2 hour:P
[01:36:42] yajika1030: Can I save the game anytime, anywhere?
[01:37:02] yajika1030: I don' t know how to save.
[01:39:10] Don' t eat ye: Yes
[01:39:15] Don' t eat ye: you got the pc version or 360?
[01:39:30] yajika1030: PC
[01:39:38] Don' t eat ye: press escape
[01:39:41] Don' t eat ye: and take " save"
[01:39:51] Don' t eat ye: what kind of pc do you have?
[01:39:57] Don' t eat ye: Its a very demanding game
[01:40:03] Don' t eat ye: the 360 playes it on maxium
[01:41:00] yajika1030: thanks, I try to save now
[01:41:07] * yajika1030 är nu Upptagen
[01:41:21] Don' t eat ye: so
[01:41:26] Don' t eat ye: i play this game with maxium graphic
[01:41:32] Don' t eat ye: and it look awesome
[01:41:36] * yajika1030 är nu Online
[01:41:39] Don' t eat ye: if you have the latest graphic card for the
pc
[01:41:44] Don' t eat ye: with pixel shader 3.0
[01:41:47] Don' t eat ye: you see it too :P
[01:42:01] yajika1030: my videocard is 6600GT
[01:42:03] Don' t eat ye: you can eye drop on people talking
[01:42:04] Don' t eat ye: ah
[01:42:07] Don' t eat ye: so basically
[01:42:10] Don' t eat ye: its like this my friend
[01:42:11] yajika1030: yeah
[01:42:28] Don' t eat ye: if you got 6800 or above
[01:42:36] Don' t eat ye: the pc and 360 shows the same
[01:42:44] Don' t eat ye: but with 6600 you can have it on high
[01:42:51] Don' t eat ye: but not with maxium
[01:43:03] Don' t eat ye: so
[01:43:14] Don' t eat ye: there is even a place where they create
magazine
[01:43:18] Don' t eat ye: for news in the world
[01:43:19] Don' t eat ye: :P
[01:43:27] Don' t eat ye: so you can find books and papers abou whats
going on
[01:43:34] Don' t eat ye: and you can listen to people talk about
diffrent things
[01:43:38] Don' t eat ye: they have over 50 hours of talk
[01:43:42] Don' t eat ye: for all 1500 npc
[01:43:54] Don' t eat ye: every npc talk and is voice recorded
[01:44:03] Don' t eat ye: and they dont say the same thing
[01:45:28] yajika1030: k
[01:45:35] Don' t eat ye: whta class are you playing?
[01:45:40] Don' t eat ye: im creating a knight
[01:45:42] Don' t eat ye: of some sort
[01:46:24] yajika1030: I' m playing tutriol now
[01:46:27] Don' t eat ye: k

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Now that this kind of stuff can be achieved using the imgame engine...





...it kind of makes CG a bit pointless!

CG will always surpass realtime - PSX had great CG but next gen made that realtime , so PS2 , Xbox (ninja Gaiden , Doa) improved on CG and it looked even better , now next gen is getting at it again and CG will also improve dramatically (especially on PS3 where HD 1080p movies are possible thanks to blue ray).

I love CG movies - I do however realize that for some games it' s much better to stay hooked with no jumps and stuff.

The thing is - most of the FF games now have such seemles transitions between CG and realtime that it' s just amazing.It started with FF8.

As long as consoles aren' t the ultimate power of the universe , there will be a demand for cool CG movies.

PSX had great CG but next gen made that realtime

you mean some few CG' s, cus there are a lot cg' s on PSX that even xbox360 didn' t came close to them ( final fantasy 8,9 , chrono cross ...)

But the level of visual detail that' s now possible, renders CG pointless. CG is extremely expensive to produce and takes much more time than using an ingame engine to render a cutscene.

CG will always have a place in movies and no doubt we' ll see more features like Advent Children, but in games it isn' t needed now. It' s polularity, starting on Playstation proper was mostly down to game openings. You' d watch the opening just to watch the CG (Resident Evil 2 for example), ...CG was mostly used to add production value and make the game more impressive.

CG now simply isn' t as impressive as it used to be. Sure Advent Children was great but most other CG in games isn' t at the kind of level Square produce and generally the animation isn' t right or as reaslistic as it should be and that just detracts from the experience.

I think CG in games is retarded. The Final Fantasy games always look nice and it' s used well, but most other devs don' t get the transitions right.

I think that with CG the artists can make a different artistic approach to the cut-scenes. Using the games engine doesn' t give the artists the same freedom since they pretty much have to follow the limitations of the graphic engine and the hardware specs.

Hardware specs yes, but next-gen consoles should be able to do tons of amazing stuff. Ingame cutscenes can have a shitloads of post processing effects added to them which allows as much creative freedom as the artists require.

CG is usually done externally so they can only follow the brief given to them by the development team.

The cutscenes in Need For Speed: Most Wanted are fantastic and absolutely gorgeous, and they' re not even CG.

you mean some few CG' s, cus there are a lot cg' s on PSX that even xbox360 didn' t came close to them ( final fantasy 8,9 , chrono cross ...)

360 can do much more than any - ANY PSX FMV (CG) made by anyone .

in games it isn' t needed now

That' s what people are saying every new generation - wait till you see Square doing CG movies for PS3 in HD 1080p and then tell me what you think :)

Seriously - CG move forward just as much as realtime , so it will look 10 times better than most realtime animations until we reach the point where realtime can' t get more realistic.

MGS is the only series that managed to have realtime cut-scenes that look amazing and I wouldn' t want them to be CG.

Most games looke terribly artificial (animations , transitions between animations) and CG is a perfect cure for this.

I wonder if animals in Oblivion spining around 360 degrees (hilarious) are a special treat for 360 version :)

That' s what people are saying every new generation - wait till you see Square doing CG movies for PS3 in HD 1080p and then tell me what you think :)

Which is relevant only for people who have HDMI enabled HDTV' s that can display 1080p. Sony have already fucked a shitload of early HDTV adopters so the amount of people that will be watching movies in 1080p via their PS3 will be significantly lower than you think.

Do you have a HDMI enabled HDTV i wonder?

MGS is the only series that managed to have realtime cut-scenes that look amazing and I wouldn' t want them to be CG.

What about games like Resident Evil 4?

Most games looke terribly artificial (animations , transitions between animations) and CG is a perfect cure for this

I think what Dra6onboy was getting at is the fact that most transition between CG and realtime are terrible, and although their are a few titles that do a good job of it he' s right. CG in games if just getting old and its not as impressive as it used to be and for that reason along with others its being used much less.

I wonder if animals in Oblivion spining around 360 degrees (hilarious) are a special treat for 360 version :)

That wouldn' t be a complaint about the game would it? Do you have a 360 and a copy of Oblivion?

The answer to your qusetion would be a no, it' s also there in the PC version of the game. Its not like it matters though, its a great game and i cant think of a game off the top of my head that has gotten it perfect. Can you?

The cutscenes in Need For Speed: Most Wanted are fantastic and absolutely gorgeous, and they' re not even CG.

They are excellent yes but there are too few of them. The story should have had more depth and there should have been moree cutscenes throughtout the bulk of the game. Hopefully theyll do that next time.

Sulphur_Genius

quote:]GaNgStA[

That' s what people are saying every new generation - wait till you see Square doing CG movies for PS3 in HD 1080p and then tell me what you think :)


Which is relevant only for people who have HDMI enabled HDTV' s that can display 1080p. Sony have already fucked a shitload of early HDTV adopters so the amount of people that will be watching movies in 1080p via their PS3 will be significantly lower than you think.

.....surely Square' s CG in a PS3 Final Fantasy will look super-awesome with or without HD?....

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

.....surely Square' s CG in a PS3 Final Fantasy will look super-awesome with or without HD?....

Granted, but then what was his point?

Cgi Films look great without a Uber Fantastic Hdtv, And same with games too if the devolpers work on them, not blameing the consumer becuase he dosent have an hdtv. It should look just as good on sdt, Shrek still looks good on your regular old tv. So will next gen/current gen games.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

The difference between an in game cut-scene and a CG cut-scene is clearly demonstrated in Final Fantasy X. There isn' t even a comparison! They have Yuna doing her spirit dance (or whatever it' s called) in both, and the CG version is unbelievable! It' s more like beautiful art, rather than just a plot device.

It' s also evident if you watch the opening to Oblivion (in game) and compare it to the cut-scene in Warcraft III where there' s a similar scene (doing a fly by of the city in CG). Yeah, Oblivion looks awesome, but Warcraft III is head and shoulders above!

I like CG, and I hope it stays around for a long time. Hell, half the fun of playing Team Ninja games comes from unlocking the cool CG movies!

Quentin Tarantino hates CG...

360 can do much more than any - ANY PSX FMV (CG) made by anyone .

have you played final fantasy 9??

no no what about namco CG' s, Tekken 3 or Ridge Racer 4 the openening remember ??

are u sure 360 can do those ?? i don' t think so ... really ... some CG' s had a lot and lot of things going on at the same time, mighty more impressive than killzone 2 video and if you really think that xbox360 can do all psx CG' s or let' s say just most of them, then PS3 doing the same quality video of killzone 2 is " very very" possible ... but that' s a dream , wake up..


and i agree with some people here, CG' s is defintly not impressive as before and it is not as needed as before, i guess it is needed only in stuff where there is a lot of things going on at the same time, some big explosions in enormous cities with a million of people , sure that will be very hard to render in real time.. that' s where CG is handy...

there are games that use the 3d engine to render their cut scenes in an exceelnt way, Konami and Capcom are the best i guess.. i' m sur i forgot some few others ...

Yes,it can,did you know geeforce 3 could render the whole Final Fantasy movie?
So these xeno beast with 512mb 48 pipelines can' t render the ff9 cg? ofc it can,at what fps i dont know,however graphic like that is possible.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I think it should be more of an option to have blue ray when they are needed
Yeah demos on the disk with alot of extra features .
Some devs could make good use of it .

As for CG look a ff7-9 there was a big jump in cg quality and most people don' t make it seamless.

and everything can' t be done

As for 360 being able to do all CG/FMV from Playstaion one I disagree
from what future games i see coming out That quality has yet to be seen

There are details that you won' t see in realtime cutscenes not saying it is neccesary
but if they want to do a good job on it let have at it

quez of course xbox360 can render FF9' s CG, but when i say it can' t it means witha reasonable FPS obviously

FF7 tech demo prove me right,i won you guys lost,kiss my feets,KISS THEM!!!

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

As far as i' m aware, these are all running realtime on 360 hardware. While not exactly of todays CG quality (i' m thinking Advent Children), they are damn close to any CG on Playstation, ...some are even superior.

Nobody can contest that games are rapidly approaching the kind of visual quality that makes CG pointless to use, especially considering how expensive it it.

























As for PS3, well is may be a scripted cutscene with tons of post processing effects added, but this is still realtime and in no way CG...