Oblivion - PC Developers SUCK...

IGN has a Retail Version and so far:

-Framerate sux at times (sure it' s playable but ..)
-Loading Times 10-20s (when loading indoor enviroments,walking into some area with different grass and so on)
-Visible Low-Res objects in the distance.

All those problems appear on 360 - PC has shorter loading times (and less of those) and less framerate drops.

360 is the only platform that can have HDR+AA at the same time.

That' s why I hate those lazy worthless PC Devs (except Blizzard and Valve)

If you knew half the crap that these guys went through working on this game you wouldn' t be so critical of them. I have friend that I go to school with that is friends with one of the lead modelers for the game and is currently staying with him at GDC. He has full access to everything about the game. He' s told me plenty of stories about how much trouble they had making the game. You have to realize this is the biggest game ever created thus far in gaming history. 16 square miled of extremely detailed enviroments, radiant AI, thousands of NPCs, incredible graphics... I could go on and one. Having occasional frame rate problems don' t bother me all that bad expecially since they mainly happen while riding a horse and not as much when you are walking around like normal.

Loading times are expected since the had to make the game work without the HD so you can' t critisize them for that. That' s microsoft' s fault, not Bethsesda' s. Anybody that played Morrowind won' t be bothered by this much since we dealt with longer loading times with that game.

The low rez objects were pretty much expected as well. With 16 square miles of island to explore there' s a lot that has to be rendered in that game. They needed try to cut back on what was rendered as much as possible. For the most part large landmarks such as cities or temples are made to be seen from great distances while other things won' t be rendered that are the same distance away from you.

Oh, and the PC verion only has less of those problems if you are playing on the most beastly computers that re out such as a top of the line alienware with all the extras. The PC version is the port of the 360 version. Remember that.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

Ohh the ign reviews says it stutters when loading new grass, no 20 second loading!

Ohh the ign reviews says it stutters when loading new grass, no 20 second loading!

I said that loadings are 10-20s and in many deifferent situations - I didn' t say it loads grass for 20s - at least that wasn' t my intention :)

Oh, and the PC verion only has less of those problems if you are playing on the most beastly computers

That' s no excuse - a BEAST PC still can' t achieve performance of 360.

There are games on PS2 (Dragon Quest VIII) that have no loadtimes so I don' t understand how can it be a problem for 360 (yeah even with a great view distance).And I' m sure that DQ8 is at least as tough for PS2 to run (it' s a shitty system after all) as Oblivion is for 360.

I know it' s hard , but it' s not impossible.Maybe it is for PC devs -especially making PC games for consoles.Japanese guys could pull it off and they wouldn' t even start making it untill they were sure it' s possible.

Quake 4 same story (framerate).IT' s not the hardware.Hell no.

Having said that I still consider it to be one of the best games for 360 -it' s just dissapointing.

At least we now know that the best version is the PC version ...

Loading times may suck, but as long as you realise that pretty much ALL PS3 games will have loading times like this because of Blu-Ray...

I' m not that bothered about 20 second loading times, ...it sucks but it can' t be helped in some situations. It' s a 1st generation title and isn' t using 360' s full potential by far. My guess is that they just weren' t able to figure out ho best to utilize the three processors together properly.

Quake 4 same story (framerate).IT' s not the hardware.Hell no.

A messy rushed port. It was rushed for launch and they did a poor job of it. It' s crap anyway!

That' s no excuse - a BEAST PC still can' t achieve performance of 360.

True. It' ll be another 12 months at least and some new technology before PC' s catch up with what 360 can ACTUALLY do.

I' ll be able to see for myself on Friday morning, but i want to spend some time underground in the dungeons so i may not see these problems until later in the weekend!

Im watching the finale hour of greg broadcasting OB live in his 12 hour marathon on a 360,ITS BEEN FUCKING AMAZING,TRUST ME.
I NEED THIS GAME SO MUCH NOW!!!!

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Still not sure which version to get... It' s a choice between paying £25 or £40, but I naturally assumed it would end up running smoother on the 360 than on my PC (which only just makes the rec. specs)

Perhaps the OB guys at Bethesda havent got the hang of multicore coding yet, but there' s no such excuse for not getting at least twice the power out of the Xenos chip than my 6800gt!

360 footage is enough to make me want this game, and I havent played any others in the series yet...

http://xboxmovies.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/2938/Gameplay-Collage/

It' s so early in the consoles lifecycle, yet titles of quality are now appearing it' s great. I' d never traditionally play a game like GRAW and I absolutely love it, maybe this will be the case too. Looks like a great first 360 attempt to me.

I' ve got a similar spec PC to yours choupolo, but I' ll buy the 360 version simpl because its more immersive on such a large screen and others can get involved even if they arn' t actually playing

Loading time has been great,and not any 20 sec,atgleast not from when GREG played OB.
I watched it,i know :)
Also the 360 graphic was just awesome,im getting this baby :)

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

no doubts - it' s amazing , but could' ve been much more polished.I' m a consumer - it' s not my job to make up excuses for developers.I never had to make excuses for Japanese devs and I' m used to high production values and polished games.

no doubts - it' s amazing , but could' ve been much more polished.I' m a consumer - it' s not my job to make up excuses for developers.I never had to make excuses for Japanese devs and I' m used to high production values and polished games.

Should we make a list of poor jap games?

this is poor generalisation and you hopefully know it!

Gangsta, I understand where you' re coming from, but I think you should wait to pass judgement on the game until you play through it. Then the choices that the developers made may not seem like such a big deal to you.

I mean, a 20 second load time seems like a lot, but how long do you play in each section before you have to experience that 20 seconds? What if you played for a half hour before getting to a new zone? I don' t think that' s unreasonable. Now if it was every 5 minutes, that would NOT be acceptable.

I' m just sayin' ...

I never saw a 20 sec loading time,i saw like 5 when entering Oblivion or reloading when greg died.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Lets clear this up.

The article Gangsta is referring to is available here...

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/697/697211p1.aspx

...and WHAT he' s referring to is...

Though we experienced some odd loading issues when first starting out on the X360, we thereafter had no problem running through environments and hot-swapping weapons. The game does major loading sequences at town doors and entrances to larger areas, which seem to last between 10 and 30 seconds. While running through open wilderness and fields, the game will briefly pause to load in new grass. On the Xbox 360, these minor outdoor loading sequences mean the game will stutter for a split second. On the PC, this stutter wasn' t so apparent.

In populated areas or environments with large amounts of geometry, the framerate definitely drops off. However, at no point does it become unplayable, it' s just not as smooth as lurking around underground dungeons. Regardless of framerate, Oblivion is so far displaying some of the best visuals on the Xbox 360. Even with the low resolution textures in the extreme backgrounds, the sheer amount of visible land when wandering outside is a sight to behold. While trekking across Cyrodiil' s fields it' s impossible not to notice object pop-up. It happens frequently, with grass and smaller objects appearing at a distinct radius around your character. Like the sometimes sluggish framerates, this in no way diminishes the playability of the game.

So it' s NOT a problem and the majority WON' T be bothered whatsoever. It' s fair to say that the 360 version will be superior to all but the few gamers who have top end PC' s, and it' ll still LOOK nicer on 360 in places then.

Friday can' t come quickly enough!

I understand where you' re coming from, but I think you should wait to pass judgement on the game until you play through it. Then the choices that the developers made may not seem like such a big deal to you.

Yeah you' re right - sometimes games have so much valuable content that it justifies some issues.However there' s one thing I can' t forgive those loosers - that they did it right for PC.

Vx - it' s a pretty common statement that japanese Studios make much more polished games than both US and EU devs.

Sure you can say " hey I saw a bad japanese game!!" - but you haven' t seen any title from US or EU as polished as the best Japanese titles.

Is saying that Apple controls 85% of the music industry a generalisation or just a fact?

Same goes for Quality of games - check gamerankings.com and you' ll see who has the top 10 games - JAPAN.

you haven' t seen any title from US or EU as polished as the best Japanese titles.

Chaos Theory on Xbox for one!



As for quality Japanese games, ...it' s the underrated but excetionally cool games that always interest me.

For example...

Phantom Dust







Otogi and it' s sequel

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on

you haven' t seen any title from US or EU as polished as the best Japanese titles.

Chaos Theory on Xbox for one!

You are now one of the coolest people here.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

hahaha Rampage made me chuckle! Get a vote from me for that too Majik!

I think that saying one terirories polish is greater than anothers is waaaay too sweeping a generalisation, which maybe stood up a couple generations ago, style of presentation is different - but I' d say most are of the same quality, if not style!

I think Gangsta has some " fetisch" with the japaneese developers, ohh and all PC developers suck as well. So the only games worth playing are Japaneese console games? ohh wait Japaneese dont play PC games.


I still think its poor generalisation, and people in love tend to look past faults and issues.


Nanananananaa Gangsta is inlove with the Japaneeeseee' s


Look at the silly monkey.. look at it!!

Chaos Theory on Xbox for one!

Well it is a cool game and one of the best titles for Xbox , but it' s far from polished.
If you haven' t encountered any bugs/glitches - you:
A:are a one lucky son of a bitch
B:didn' t explore too much and played it just like Ubisoft thought you will

VX - Ofc I' m in luv with Japanese studios - I have my reasons :)

There are some amazing games from PC developers but it' s rare for them to be as polished as japanese titles.

PC GAMERS are used to trading polished product for more features.TOP Japanese studios focus on quality first.

Half Life 2 - the best PC game I' ve played lately is pure quality - but it' s a rare exception.

You love PC RPGs right? that' s cool , but do you know any title that isn' t bugged? I don' t know any jRPG that has bugs.

You' ve been wasting your live VX blindly lovin your PC , while I played quality console games and some (very rare) good ones for PC.

Go on take the Red pill and I will show what consoles are all about...

YOU CAN HATE ME NOW...
:)

YOU CAN HATE ME NOW...

BUT I WON' T STOP NOW...



I see what you' re saying (kinda), but western games in general are just as polished as titles developed by Japanese studios.

This argument is a little childish really...

The one thing about Japanese games is that they try to stay away from uber-realistic, shader-heavy games like Splinter Cell, or technology driven visuals. The west is MUCH better at that kind of thing but it' s something that AQ Interactive is trying to do with Vampire' s Rain for 360. Personally i think it' s ill advised, but no doubt their poor sales will show them that.

Chaos Theory on Xbox was not only absolutely stunning but one of the most polished titles of the last generation. It' s a linear game and it can only really be played one way, and it' s not like i go looking for glitches...

It' s not like Japanese games don' t have their share of bugs, glitches and issues though. To say otherwise is just plain ignorant!

The big difference is the styles of the games, and i for one LOVE Japanese games and generally anything Japanese. But suffice to say i expect Ghost Recon 4 to outdo MGS4 (how could i say such a thing?!!!)...

Yes, all those mediocre looking 500th Onimusha rip-off/ 500th same looking RPG that makes no sense are just sooo polished. The visuals and audio blew me away, unlike Chaos Theory, which looked like the backside of a dog. (end sarcastic rant)

I dont want to celebrate, I want to sell you hate.

The one thing about Japanese games is that they try to stay away from uber-realistic, shader-heavy games like Splinter Cell, or technology driven visuals.

Shenmue?
MGS?

Chaos Theory wasn' t even close to being the most polished game - and it' s far from linear - there are so many ways to complete each mission.

It' s not like Japanese games don' t have their share of bugs, glitches and issues though. To say otherwise is just plain ignorant!

that' s why I never said so - I said that " I don' t know any jRPG with bugs" and I also don' t know any PC RPG without at least one (and not any minor bug).

I' m not a huge onimusha fan but I don' t remember any clones of this game :)

Ghost Recon 4 to outdo MGS4 (how could i say such a thing

Well that' s just stupid to say - it' s like saying that nex burnout is going to be better than Virtua Fighter 5.

Both games are completely different.

And about Splinter 3 - I didn' t go looking for bugs and glitches - things like that are all over every SC game and it' s easy to bump into one of them.


Are you saying that the only difference is the graphics style or presentation?

that' s bullshit.

I saw some gameplay videos of oblivion from 1up (played on some PC) and it looks great - I mean the graphics I saw in eralier movies were way better , but this looks nice too and seems to be a great game.One day I' m going to play it and have a lot of fun :)

If you want to know what I mean by PC developers crap - check out dogs/horses movement (especially rotation) - it' s fuckin hilarious and so typical :)

OB,probably gonna have some glitches to,i mean the world is huge as in a mmo,we have to expect some crazy things will occur :)
I will compare my pc version with the 360,on friday,and then print some Screens...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I wonder how it would look on PS3 - maybe it wouldn' t have such loading " issues" (I know I' m bitchin' :) ) since they can use the HDD (and they clearly lack skills to pull it off without one)

At that point there could be no PS3 version after all so it doesn' t really matter

Shenmue?
MGS?

Realistic? Shooting frogs that turn into spinning rations is realistic?

Shenmue was cool and shader driven-ish, but it' s a highly manga stylized game, and nothing like western titles. Most western titles strain to achieve photorealistic visuals, whereas Japanese developers generally avoid doing this. I' m not saying they don' t and that some titles don' t do it well, but they don' t do it like Western developers by a long shot!

Chaos Theory wasn' t even close to being the most polished game - and it' s far from linear - there are so many ways to complete each mission.

What, and all out assault or a stealthy approach? Maybe you should look up the word linear in the dictionary and see what i mean when i say it' s a linear game.

Well that' s just stupid to say - it' s like saying that nex burnout is going to be better than Virtua Fighter 5.

Both games are completely different.

Since you don' t know what the next MGS game is going to be like (like the rest of us) you can' t say they can' t be compared. Shit, Kojima wants to put major emphasis on multi-player in MGS4 and change the game dynamics to an urban battlefield, ...sounds like GR to me. Since Advanced Warfighyer is set in the future, it' s fair to say that the next Ghost game will be set after it. So 2 games set in the future, in an unban battlefield?!

Are you saying that the only difference is the graphics style or presentation?

Check again Gangsta, i said the BIG difference, not ONLY difference. Your saying the style and presentation of Japanese and Western titles isn' t the biggest difference?!

Yes, all those mediocre looking 500th Onimusha rip-off/ 500th same looking RPG that makes no sense are just sooo polished. The visuals and audio blew me away, unlike Chaos Theory, which looked like the backside of a dog. (end sarcastic rant)

At least some of us get it.

ORIGINAL: ]GaNgStA[

Chaos Theory on Xbox for one!

Well it is a cool game and one of the best titles for Xbox , but it' s far from polished.
If you haven' t encountered any bugs/glitches - you:
A:are a one lucky son of a bitch
B:didn' t explore too much and played it just like Ubisoft thought you will

Umm... I' ve played the hell out of the game and have yet to come across any serious glitch. The worst that has happened in the game for me is some clipping issues but they were minor. Chaos Theory was the single most polished game last generation, imo.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I wonder how it would look on PS3 - maybe it wouldn' t have such loading " issues" (I know I' m bitchin' :) ) since they can use the HDD (and they clearly lack skills to pull it off without one)

They already use the HDD for us premium user to oblivion,and it makes loading shorter,then for the people with Core.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Rampage - I had problems with enemy AI (had to start over cause they didn' t do the things they were supoused to do) and clipping.

Ninja Gaiden Black is the most polished game for Xbox.

Mjik have you even played CT? there are at least 3 ways to finish each level - and all are stealh ways.It' s actually something developers were really proud of when talking about it.

About photorealism - I think MGS2 was way beyond anything on the market when it came out.And since we' re discussing visuals I don' t think I should talk about shooting frogs.(actually the concept of eating in the jungle , medical treatment and stuff is very realistic)

Virtua Fighter and Tekken are both totally into realism.But yeah I have to say it is common for japanese developers to make games at least a bit anime looking.

So 2 games set in the future, in an unban battlefield?!

maybe but MGS is a story driven game - that' s a huge difference.

oh and I do get it smart ass - I just wondered if there are any onimusha clones out there

maybe but MGS is a story driven game - that' s a huge difference.

I' m guessing you haven' t played Ghost Recon yet then. Try to bear in mind it' s a Tom Clancy game, ...and what does he do?!

oh and I do get it smart ass - I just wondered if there are any onimusha clones out there

Who mentioned Onimusha?!

About photorealism - I think MGS2 was way beyond anything on the market when it came out

Sons of Liberty?! Erm...wasn' t photorealism, it didn' t even try to achieve photo realism. MGS2 was damn impressive (for the most part) and is one of my favourite games, but i would never have mentioed it in a sentance about photorealism. I mean, Shenmue was closer than MGS2 was. It' s got nothing to do with fancy visuals either, that' s not the point!

I don' t think I should talk about shooting frogs.(actually the concept of eating in the jungle , medical treatment and stuff is very realistic)

My point is that Japanese games have these quirky (cool but odd sometimes) things in, that try to add another dimension to the game. Yeah you need to eat, but other games don' t do it, and in Snake Eater it just felt lame.

Mjik have you even played CT? there are at least 3 ways to finish each level - and all are stealh ways

If you have to get to the same point, do the same objectives, encounter the same set pieces and follow a single story arc, then it' s linear!

Rampage - I had problems with enemy AI (had to start over cause they didn' t do the things they were supoused to do) and clipping.

You' re game is obviously different to ours, because i' ve never had any problems with the enemy AI, and my guess is that Ramgape hasn' t either...

Virtua Fighter and Tekken are both totally into realism.But yeah I have to say it is common for japanese developers to make games at least a bit anime looking

I can' t name one that isn' t off the top of my head... I love big wide eyes and plastic looking skin, just like everybody else, ...i love Japanese games completely, ...but they sty;e their games one way and western developers do theirs another. It' s a huge difference and that was my point.

I' m guessing you haven' t played Ghost Recon yet then. Try to bear in mind it' s a Tom Clancy game, ...and what does he do?!

oh right so you probably haven' t noticed any difference between Splinter Cell and MGS story? Maybe how it' s the main aspect of metal gear and just a background for gameplay in SC.

If you have to get to the same point, do the same objectives, encounter the same set pieces and follow a single story arc, then it' s linear!

Ok that' s bullshit. I' d rather have that kind of nonlinear aproach than 10 different endings that are all mediocre.

Oh and if that' s the case then life is terribly linear - you are born and then you die.

You' re game is obviously different to ours, because i' ve never had any problems with the enemy AI, and my guess is that Ramgape hasn' t either...

Most likely since your game is also linear and every review I read says it' s not(that would mean I played the same version those editors had).

You' re right about anime style visuals - now that I think about it , even MGS2 and Shenmue were influenced by it.

oh right so you probably haven' t noticed any difference between Splinter Cell and MGS story? Maybe how it' s the main aspect of metal gear and just a background for gameplay in SC.

It' s still story driven, as is Ghost Recon, and you' d understand more clearly if you read the books, since characters in the games are also in the novels.

That doesn' t mean the games will be vastly different though doesn it?!

Ok that' s bullshit. I' d rather have that kind of nonlinear aproach than 10 different endings that are all mediocre

It' s STILL linear (it' s NOT open ended), ...check the definition in the dictionary and you may get what i' m saying rather than poorly attempting to argue your point.

You' re right about anime style visuals - now that I think about it , even MGS2 and Shenmue were influenced by it.

But that' s exactly what i love about it. Those games wouldn' t be as cool as they are without their style and it gives them an edge that western releases generally don' t have!

I just wish someone would make a GREAT Ghost in the Shell game...

I' m not sure you can really say Ghost Recon has a proper story. It' s more of an excuse for a gameplay objective. A story would have to have complex characters, ups and downs, messages, emotion, colour instead of black and white etc etc.

Ghost Recon was just " oh no terrorists, don' t worry Scott Mitchell will shoot them cos he' s my hero!" Whereas MGS was more story for the sake of it, which was actually quite excessive in no2!

I just wish someone would make a GREAT Ghost in the Shell game...

Too right!

That doesn' t mean the games will be vastly different though doesn it?!

IT doeas actually - that' s the main difference between MGS and Splinter Cell and it makes them completely different.

As for linear in dictionary - why would I care? - games will never be as open ended as life.

What gamers call nonlinear is different - you should know that.

Ask any gamer you know if he thinks oblivion is linear (it is by your standards).

You' re putting Chaos Theory next to Oblivion?

Chaos Theory is linear, Oblivion is not...

As for linear in dictionary - why would I care? - games will never be as open ended as life.

You don' t think that one day, and overly ambitious dev will attempt to map the entire world, or maybe just a country and let you do whatever you wish?!

IGN has a Retail Version and so far:

-Framerate sux at times (sure it' s playable but ..)
-Loading Times 10-20s (when loading indoor enviroments,walking into some area with different grass and so on)
-Visible Low-Res objects in the distance.

All those problems appear on 360 - PC has shorter loading times (and less of those) and less framerate drops.

360 is the only platform that can have HDR+AA at the same time.

That' s why I hate those lazy worthless PC Devs (except Blizzard and Valve)

cry much?

...what about 2005' s best game, Resident Evil 4?....

...regarded as the best because of it' s ability to mix Western Bravura with Japanese class??.... ...at least in my opinion....

...generally, i get pi$$ed at both territories these days, for not being good at exceeding in BOTH ideals..... ....i love photo-realism and the west' s penchant for high octane action and adventure..... ....but western fps' s and adventure games generally seem.... .. ...standard and average?.... ...getting the job done and not much else??...

...like it' s always the same basic crappy type character models.... ...extreme detail in the environments and characters (like moving clothes and hair), motion capturing, good voice actors etc is always lacking in my opinion....
...especially considering that the endless amount of specs/graphic cards etc. the M$/PC community is always raving about, seems to count for sh*t when the final product is released...

.... like they are more concerned with developing a new processor with higher specs etc, than they are with sitting down with the current generation' s hardware and putting the time and effort in optimising it' s full capabilities....

...that' s probably why the ex-box had such few classy, polished, jaw dropingly gorgeous titles... ..the majority of which were made by Team Ninja....

.....and why do PC developers seem to be so extremely lazy (or unskilled) when producing PC to ex-box/360 conversions??.... ...i realise that most M$ fans typically own PC' s too, but what about the rest of us??... ..why should we non-PC owners have to put up with endless crap, late and lazy conversions ?.... ...

...i just wish that the Asian developers would concentrate more, on more adult themes.... ...in their movies, anime and manga they love guns, subversive subjects and blood...
...but when they decide to make a new Playstation game, it' s generally kiddie/consumer crap like Brain Train or Dragonball Z...


...Bottom Line?....

.....i want M$ to say developers: " 720 will not be announced 3 years from now... ...take your time getting to know 360 then spend another 5 years developing your best material" .... ...and... " f*ck next year' s graphic card" ...

...and the Japanese developers to grow some balls and stick up their collective middle fingers to children, old people, girls and dweebs (especially dweebs!)

.....a Japanese made FPS would be totally awesome also...




....PS: is there any chance Onimusha 4 will be released on ex-box?.... ...because it looks like utter crap on the PS2.... ...i haven' t seen such big release visual sh*ite since Devil May Cry 3 ....

Currently accepting Article & Review requests

cry much?

not much - I expected something like that. -Why? did I hurt your feelings saying that PC devs can' t make a game without glitches and shit?

is there any chance Onimusha 4 will be released on ex-box?

Highly doubtful, but i hear it' s being ported to PC like RE4.

.....a Japanese made FPS would be totally awesome also...

The Japanese aren' t keen on FPS' games, i don' t expect much from them in that regard.

...that' s probably why the ex-box had such few classy, polished, jaw dropingly gorgeous titles... ..the majority of which were made by Team Ninja....

I think that' s a little harsh, i mean...

Beyond Good & Evil
Black
Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood
The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
Tom Clancy' s Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
DOOM 3
Far Cry Instincts
Conker: Live & Reloaded

...are all gorgeous titles. I know what you mean, and i agree that Team Ninja were able to get more out of the Xbox than most studios, with DOAU being one of my favourite games...



...but i think you' re being a little harsh.