Neo Geo

I am considering getting a Neo Geo system since the few games I want for it clock in around $30 or less nowadays. I don' t care about too many fighting games or the most recent Metal Slugs. But I still have a few questions. I posted on another board, but I keep getting resposes from emulation kiddies who cannot comprehend my desire to have the real thing. I am NOT interested in emulation! If you are an emulation kiddie please exit this thread, thanks. Anyway here are my questions:

-Is the Neo Geo region free? Most of the ones I see seem to be the Japanese version.

-I want the AES, correct?

-Are the Neo Geo CD controllers compatible with the real Neo Geo system? Are they any good.

-Is it true what is said about Neo Geo having extremely variable video output? I hear some systems output a very striped signal and others don' t. All I care about is RGB. I don' t care about composite, I don' t care about an s-video mod. Does this mean I should get a system with a serial number between 20,000 and 33,000?

Thanks.

-Is the Neo Geo region free? Most of the ones I see seem to be the Japanese version.

Yes I believe so... I have a Japanese console and mostly (if not all) U.S. games for it. When I first got the system all of the games were in Japanese (text and speech). After the unit was supposedly sent to SNK they supposedly toggled the language chip to English, sent it back and the games were in English.

Unfortunately I have no idea about the Neo Geo CD controllers being compatible or about the video output. My unit came with a crappy MONO A/V cable as well as an RF connector.

AES is the console version, yes..

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Hmmm... I want to hear " I am destined just to die!" It just wouldn' t be the same hearing " Okawma ku se HAKIMOTO!" instead. Better get the US version.

Actually just send me yours. You don' t need it. Wait.... don' t you have the CD version?

The funny thing is, that' s the main reason why I wanted the unit to play the games in English, just so I can hear Gal-Agiese (Magician Lord) talk $hitt at the end of every level!

" Come on nice guy, but your life is mine very soon!"


I don' t know if you know this already but the home version of Magician Lord is also harder than the arcade version. In addition to adding a cinematic scene before starting the first level, they totally eliminated the convenience of dying and coming back to life at the same spot.. You die, they throw you back quite a few steps, which is a pain in the ass during the later boss battles...

Wait.... don' t you have the CD version?

Nah, cartridge version.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Yeah I rented the Neo Geo system a few times 15 years ago back when it was en vogue. Too bad they didn' t also add SOUND TESTS! Those fools. But $30 for Magician Lord? I' m there. I' m tempted to start buying the games now while I can and just wait until I can find a suitable system.

The Neo Geo AES is fully region free. Basically all versions of the game is contained on a home AES cart including the arcade code.

All Neo CD pads and AV Cables work with the AES too. The pads are really good too, the d pad works much like an arcade stick, though the old-style Neo stick IS the best way to play these games. Still, I often use the pad instead.

If you have the money the AES is the one to get.

All I care about is RGB

Excellent (clasps hands together like Mr Burns), so do I.

Unfortunitely this varies drastically according which batch of machine you end up with. Later serial number machines have the worst RGB output as SNK tried to improve the system' s dire composite out. late Neo Geo consoles RGB output has faint horizontal lines, and a mesh like grid over the picture, washing out the colours and weaking the sharpness of the picture.

Try to get one with as early serial number you can, though these can go for higher prices, especially if you are buying from someone in the know. The only real downside with earlier machines RGB out, is that it is a little dark.

Failing that you can get a pure RGB mod done to your AES which will take the video directly from the video processor rather than the AV out chip. Most people will also do a pure stereo mod for the system which works in the same way.

In terms of games the Jap versions are much cheaper to buy than their US/English counterparts, and with later games you can usually change the language in the options screen. Sadly earlier ones like the first Samurai Showdown do not have this option.

Sorry if my response feels a little rushed, thinking about everything at once.

If you need any other info, feel free to ask.

though the old-style Neo stick IS the best way to play these games. Still, I often use the pad instead.

You CAN' T be talking about the hollow pieces of crap that came with the cartridge-based system!!!??

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

The original bulky stick with those somewhat raised buttons (matches the actual console), yes.

It' s far more responsive than the Neo CD arcade stick that was released a few years later and it has never let me down. Ultimately though the best stick to use if you can get one modded, is the Jap Naomi-style Hori arcade sticks. Add proper arcade buttons and stick (Jap style) and you' ve got the perfect thing.

I really like the orig Neo sticks despite being hollow, the CD pad although excellent as well, gives more of a home console feel.

I wish they made an adapter so I could use Sega Saturn pads.

How dark is the early Neo RGB out? I have the SNES, Saturn, and Sega Genesis 16-bit 32X video entertainment system with Sega CD all hooked up in RGB. Out of those, the SNES seems a teeny-weeny bit darker.

I found this:

Serial #	Version	  RGB	  Composite	   S-Video
 1-10,000	  1        B          B             Unknown
 10,001-14,000	  2        B          B             Unknown
 14,001-19,999	  3        B          B             Unknown
 20,000-33,000	  4        A          B             Unknown
 40,000-65,000	  5        C          A               C
 70,000-150,000	  6        C          A               C
 200,000-390,000  7        C          A               C

So I obviously need a unit between 20,000 and 33,000. Would those be less dark? Dark pisses me off.

Well, those in the range you need are darker than the 200,000 + serial machines.

They aren' t massively darker but it is noticeable, I thought my 300,000 + serail machine (got mine modded for perfect RGB) was a little dark before modding, compared to the Neo CD (bright, crisp etc).

The chart you have looks very familiar, I remember a site which had direct feed caps of various machines running. I' ll do some searching and try to locate it, but it may be offline as I haven' t looked into it since I got my AES back in early 2003.

Untill then, head over to Neo-Geo.com and hit the forums. That' s the place I found the link for the info before.

Does the pure RGB mod use the same AV out 9-pin DIN?

Found one of the links:

http://nfg.2y.net/games/neorgb/

Not the greatest comparison but it shows how much darker the original RGB was, though I' ve seen better side-by-sides before.

Does the pure RGB mod use the same AV out 9-pin DIN?

Yes it does, they simply replace the video output board with a new one designed to output visuals direct from the graphics chip.

The one system they have for sale at Neo-Geo.com is a heavily modded system for $475(!). What I definitely don' t like are those nasty-looking gold jacks sticking out from the back, and what would also piss me off is a glowing LED under the power button. I imagine the same type of people who do this are the same people who think it is cool to have neon lights inside their computer case. Weirdos. I don' t mind using the headphone jack for my stereo sound, as that' s what I do with my Genesis and that' s what I did when I rented the Neo 35 years ago. I may just tolerate it being a little darker because I don' t really want the expense of modding a system that was poorly constructed to begin with. You think for the price they were selling them for they could have at least used the same video out as the Genesis. Everything else abut the system is Genesis-like.

Those mods are good but just for US users with no RGB input. The RGB mod is not noticeable from the outside thankfully.

My best advice is just track down an unmodded low serial machine in the range you mentioned, and see if you can torlerate the darker RGB. If not then get the machine modded at a later date.

No point in buying a pre-modded system as more often than not they have loads of stuff you don' t want like that NG.com one, and are condiderably more expensive.

My Neo just has a bios chipfitted for US, Jap and MVS modes, and RGB mod. No cheesy lights, and no external changes from how it was made by SNK.

Alright. Give it to me. You don' t need it anymore.

Since you most likely will not give me yours, even if I offered money for it (!), where would you suggest be the best place to look? eBay? I really like to hear the Engrish phrases in Magician Lord and Baseball Stars, so I' d prefer a US system.

Since you most likely will not give me yours, even if I offered money for it

You' re quite welcome to come over and play mine if you pay for the flight and accomodation to the UK.


Mmmmm......... You could try hit-japan on ebay, but he pretty much only ever comes across Jap AES systems.

I don' t really know anywhere other than ebay, NG.com where you could get one from seeing as I' m not really all clued up with US based retro sellers.

I usually get Neo stuff from ebay (hit-japan), Neo-Geo.com and videogameimports.co.uk.

UK sellers though, are usually more expensive than buying from the US or Japan even after deducting VAT which is added on the retail price. So that propably won' t be an option for you.

Well I found a couple US systems from a US seller on eBay with serials 013312 and 012697. Unfortunately they come with games. Cheap games that I think he is selling for a bit much. For example there is a $600 BUY IT NOW that includes 2 controllers, 1 memory card (what good is this?), Magician Lord, Thrash Rally, Nam 1975 and Riding Hero. All are good games except for Riding Hero, which is abominable. The other system is a $500 BUY IT NOW that has everything the first one has, but 3 games instead of 4, which are Baseball Stars, Ninja Combat and Football Frenzy. All games I want... except Football Frenzy.

Does this sound about right or do you think this guy is overcharging? He has perfect feedback and I can start bidding at $250, but he has a hidden reserve (that bastard).

That does steep considering those games are not worth all that much.

The stick if it' s the old-style usually goes for around $70, and you can get Jap AES for around $140 boxed in mint condition. Not too sure how much US AES sells at currently, but I image no more than $200 - 250 for the machine boxed in excellent to mint condition.

I may be wrong on the US console price though, as I haven' t looked at the US side of things for a while. Sorry.

You' ve been a lot more helpful than most people I' ve come across, so thank you. In fact Kikizo' s forum handled this subject much better than Magic Box' s. Almost everyone there was like " OMG u need 2 mod ur xbox an run neo geo gamez on teh emulatorZ bcuz it iz stoopid 2 pay 4 gamez omg lol y wood u want 2 play on a reel system thats so stupid lol rofl!!1!!"

I like my systems and games real. Emulators are great for trying stuff out you' re not too sure about.

You may want to get an MVS Supergun. It' ll probably cost you more than an AES however the games will cost you a fraction of as much, and they apparently output a good picture in RGB.

I have a new question. I finally got a Neo and one game. The top of the screen bends to the left, especially when it is bright. It doesn' t bend as much in RF or composite, but you can tell it is still there. Is this normal? My Neo' s serial number is 018468. Would modding it for " pure RGB" fix this? Where can I get it modded for real RGB?

With mine, I think the screen only bends on KOF2000' s intro during the long white flash, and that was only on my 14" Sony portable through composite and not on my 21" 4:3 Sony set through RGB which I use now.

Don' t what to make of it, I always thought that the bend was the TV at fault and not the Neo as the same thing happend with my friends DC on his TV with any connection. But now that' s not the case.

I' m not sure if a pure mod would fix the prob, may be worth asking about in tech section at the Neo-Geo.com forums, as the Neo has loads of little strange things about it.

If I can remember correctly you can get the RGB mod done by JM Kurtz at the Neo-Geo forums, I think his website is Neobitz.com (though that mod is not shown there, and the site is unfinished)

There are a few other members in the Neo Forums who can do this for you as well.

Hope this helps.

Thanks. You are the second person to recommend Kurtz. The first was from the guy who does most of the video mods in North America for all systems, but he doesn' t have much experience with RGB so he recommended Kurtz because apparently he is the Neo master.

I think the screen bends because the sync is off. It doesn' t bend for any other system. I' ll get my hands on Fatal Fury 2 tonight or tomorrow and see if that does it as well. Right now the only game I have is Magician Lord.

I am really regretting my purchase of a Neo Geo. The system is shit. It is incompetently designed and built. The joysticks are weak and crack easily. The Sega Master System was sturdier and far more intelligently designed. I got Fatal Fury 2 today. Smells like it is brand new. Damn good condition. The game is a complete crapfest on a stick. The TurboGrafx-16 version is far better... not in graphics but in actual play. I cannot get past the second round even on easy. The Neo Geo joystick makes it too difficult. It' d be nice if the buttons were laid out in some horizontal fashion, but instead they are vertical. My hand can' t twist that way and the buttons are spaced too far apart. Almost every move of mine is blocked or countered. The graphics are very poor even for the day and the sound is REALLY bad (and horribly loud). I am glad I only spent $16 on it. 100 megs? I don' t think so.

The system needs to be modified just to get perfect video out of it, unlike the Genesis, SNES or even the Sega Master System. I am really beating myself up over the purchase of this crappy system. Seriously, it sucks.

***PISSED***

Those joysticks are a NIGHTMARE to me. They feel so cheaply made.. The buttons are complete crap and the stick itself is annoying as hell with most of the games I' ve played with it.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I' m going to buy a NGCD controller just for the hell of it. It' d be better than twisting my arm sideways like this:

Dude, why are you tilting your arm like that to play?

I just play like a normal arcade stick and just move my hand left or right slightly to get access to all the buttons, or sometimes use my thumbs, no probs at all. I don' t really have any complaints about the built quality of those sticks. Sure they are a bit hollow, and not so solid, but the mechanics of it are built to last.

The video output though really sucks, so much that I got my modded almost straight away, however I don' t regret buying my Neo.

As for Fatal Fury. All the old pre Samurai Showdown games except for say World Heroes are pretty shite with unresponsive controls etc. This was at a time when SNK had no experience in fighting games and like Capcom it took a few years to reach perfection. Just look at the first SF game, compared to SF2, and Fatal Fury 2 to Real Bout.

Early era SNK sucks, but from 1993 onwards it gets good. Real Bout, KOF, Sam Sho, Last Blade, Garou, Metal Slug, Ninja Masters.

The first time I got my Neo I was annoyed at all the little things with it, however I not only got used to it, but when playing decently made games the stick and stuff was great. You just have to give it a chance, and maybe get some of the perfected 1994+ games.

I don' t actually tilt my arm that way when I play, but I almost feel I need to for rapid access to all of the buttons in a fighting game. The button placement on the Neo Geo stick can' t compete with any control pad button placement in the world.

The problem with the Neo is that it costs more than you think. First you have to buy the thing, but then discover that is needs to be MODDED (costing more money) before the video quality is on the same level as a $100 Sega Genesis.

Old SNK is the best. Great games like Nam 1975, Cyber Lip, etc are the best games available for the Neo Geo. Everything else is pretty much a fighting game, and none of those fighting games are anywhere near Capcom.

Old SNK is the best. Great games like Nam 1975, Cyber Lip, etc are the best games available for the Neo Geo. Everything else is pretty much a fighting game, and none of those fighting games are anywhere near Capcom.

Totally agree with that. SNK BEFORE the Street Fighter 2 craze was great. They actually tried to provide a nice gaming VARIETY on the Neo-Geo. SNK during the Street Fighter 2 craze lost that something special. Not only did they turn almost all of their focus towards fighting games but I remember reading somewhere that they instructed their developers to do the same. And for that reason I will FOREVER hate their f**king guts for getting Magician Lord 2 cancelled. The game was actually on the drawing boards at Alpha Denshi but SNK' s infatuation with fighting games led to it being put on the backburner indefinitely.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I read somewhere (maybe this thread, I dunno) that Art of Fighting was made instead of Magician Lord 2. Or was it World of Heroes?

those fighting games are anywhere near Capcom

I' d have to strongly disagree with that. KOF98, 2000, Last Blade 1 & 2 and Garou are all as good as Capcoms finest, if not better in some respects. For example in terms of depth KOF98 is the VF of 2D fighting games. And the music in say KOF 96,98 and the ambient sounds of Last Blade are stunning. Then there' s the arranged version for the CD versions, simply amazing.

The early Neo Geo years are by far the poorest, with only a few exceptions. Granted those exceptions were great, but SNK' s biggest strength lies creating incredibly deep fighting games sharing more in common with Sega' s VF than Capcoms SF series. Capcom borrowed SNK' s style of play quite heavily with SFIII which is why the game is so popular with Pro players and hardcore gamers.

Ultimately it' s all a matter of opinion, and a little fact with SNK' s skills being vastly superior later on. But I personally feel SNK' s best years are between 1993 and 2000. The highlight being 1996 - 1998.

I agree the machine was shoddily designed, but what you have to understand is that at the time of launch RGB was not common place in the USA, only with Amiga monitors and the like. Even in Europe many people were yet to invest in 14" RGB enabled TV' s for games. The USA never got direct RGB like we did back in 1990, and I' m not sure when component started (I know it was around in 1995), but no consoles back then used it.

I could point out that the PC Engine did not have RGB at all, and was released at the same time the Neo Geo home hardware was nearing completion. You have to get that modded from the get go anyway.

This thread is a nice read. Keep it up!

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Not discounting that SNK during the later years of the Neo-Geo churned out more finely tuned, more playable fighting games, compared to their past efforts, but fighting games became an OBSESSION of theirs, at the risk of Variety.

No doubt there was a lot of $hitte during the early years of the Neo. Stuff like Riding Hero, The Super Spy, Aggressors of Dark Kombat, 3 Count Bout, and Mutation Nation among others, but at the very least they provided a little more variety. What a nightmare world it would be for me if during a period of 1 year, ALL of Sega' s releases were fighting games with a Metal Slug thrown in every once in a while.

Most of my favorite Neo-Geo games weren' t fighting games, in fact, I only had 1 fighting game favorite. Fatal Fury 2 (arcade version).

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

you have to understand is that at the time of launch RGB was not common place in the USA

The Sega Master System, the Sega Genesis and the Super Nintendo Entertainment System were all launched BEFORE the Neo Geo, all were far less than half the price, and all have perfect RGB built in.

the PC Engine did not have RGB at all

It didn' t have an RGB jack, but the system can easily have 5 wires soldered onto a pin internally which gives you RGB. The ONLY system that simply cannot output RGB in any fashion is the NES. The PC Engine is much MUCH older than the Neo Geo.

And the music in say KOF 96,98 and the ambient sounds of Last Blade are stunning. Then there' s the arranged version for the CD versions, simply amazing.

I have some of these games on the Saturn where they are playable. Some of the music in the KoF games is good, but not outstanding. I have heard all of the arranged versions of the KoF stuff (I have a friend who sends it all) and it can get old, with the exception of a few of the rock-syle arrangements which are definitely fun.

SNK' s biggest strength lies creating incredibly deep fighting games sharing more in common with Sega' s VF than Capcoms SF series.

There is ONE thing they definitely do NOT have in common, though. Polish.

There is ONE thing they definitely do NOT have in common, though. Polish

With the exception of KOF 98, Last Blade (the first one) and Garou. Not as polished as VF, but then again nothing is. Just as polished as Capcom' s SF3, or SFA2, but with greater depth.

SNK did cut costs with the AES video output for the sake of the majority using composite output, however they also had a machine with then high end arcade spec innards too. A foolish but extrodinary thing, which makes me wish Sega made an enhanced Model 3 based next-gen machine rather than Naomi Power VR based.

The actual first Neo hardware the MVS was around in late 1989, and in the hotel only unit in 1990. The home system was in 1991. For its time the machine is quite an achievement, bad RGB or not.

The Sega Master System, the Sega Genesis and the Super Nintendo Entertainment System were all launched BEFORE the Neo Geo, all were far less than half the price, and all have perfect RGB built in

Which I' m more than thankfull for.

SNK, although in so many ways an amazing company weren' t perfect, not that Sega, Capcom, or Nintendo (my other favs) are either.

It doesn' t matter when the arcade came out. It matters when the home system came out. The machine cost $500 and used near-identical components as a Sega Genesis, only beefed up. I don' t think it was over $300 more powerful than a Sega Genesis, but whatever. The point is that there was no need to cut costs on a system like that. You don' t have to give up composite for good RGB. Why didn' t Sega cut costs? Why is their RGB so damn awesome yet their system has never cost more than $189? SNK really has no excuse. They are incompetant.

Check this out. Here are the innards of my Neo Geo:

Look at the daughterboard installed on the right.
It has wires coming out and going everywhere.


Here is one of the points it connects to on the board (the video encoder).
Look how sloppy and nasty this is. This was done by SNK themselves!
They are/were incompetant.

I don' t think it was over $300 more powerful than a Sega Genesis, but

Did you check the numerous graphics chips the Neo had over the Genesis. Although it used a faster version of the same 68000 proccessor, and a Z80 running as well, it had at around 4 additional chips just for visuals.

Thing is take a look at Garou or Last Blade and tell me that it' s not worth $300 more. Nothing on the Saturn or PSone has done that level of sprite detail and process that amount of animation all at the same time. Sure the Saturn could if it were given a bigger ram cart (more than 4mb), but it never did. Neither SNES, Genesis, 3DO, or even CPS 1 could do this.

As for the shoddy workmanship you show, unfortunitely this is the intentional cost-cutting path SNK went down in order to keep the retail price of the machine down. Originally the company never did anything like this, but when sales of the system weren' t as high as they liked they began converting home carts to MVS and vice-versa. Faulty machines in some cases I believe were also fixed and then released as new again (given a new shell etc).

I' m not a fan of all the crap SNK did to keep relatively profitable, they even sticked US labels over Jap games when releaseing certain games in the US (MVS and all AES code is on the one AES cart). However it helped them survive and create some of the most memorable games today (not that I condone the way they achived it), plus the Neo is one of the most long-lasting systems out there. It may not feel it, or look it from the insides, but ask around and you' ll find otherwise.

Anyway I' m just going over the same shit again and again so I' ll call it quits. You don' t really like the hardware, and I forgive it' s flaws for the awesome games it' s brought to me over the years.

SNK - The biggest drama gaming has ever known...

Well that' s just the thing. I have a near-launch Neo Geo and the RGB sucks. The system was not intended for sale, it was intended for rental, which may be some of the reason for the complete suckage. Still no excuse, though... especially when they were advertising the machine as better than consoles in every way and exactly like the arcade.

The Neo Geo is not $300 more powerful than the Sega Genesis. Yes, it has more chips, etc. But stuff like the 68000 and the Z80 (which the Genesis also has for the same purpose as the Neo) are off the shelf stuff, not custom. I' d say that in a time when the Genesis was $159 or so, the Neo Geo would be worth about $300.

As far as sprites were concerned, SNK never used more than the 8mb (notice I am using Neo megs and not megabytes) RAM cart for the Saturn for any of their games. The games were good ports, but they were obviously not designed for the system from the grund up. Instead they just ported code, maybe even emulated it. SNK had the 32mb RAM cart available to use, and they never did.

For sprites on the Saturn that the Neo Geo could never do, try these games:

Astal.

Actually that' s all you really need to try, and that' s a first gen game before they went poly-happy. Astal is a great game with zero polygons and really bad voice acting.

Also I' ve never seen the Neo Geo do scaling as well as Batman Returns for the Sega CD. And it can' t do rotation.

SNK had the 32mb RAM cart available to use, and they never did

True, but the level of animation in garou and Last Blade is higher than Marvel VS SF (more moves, and subtlies), and in Garou' s case would have required more than the saturns 32mb (4mb) ram cart, just like SFIII.

For sprites on the Saturn that the Neo Geo could never do, try these games

I never said the saturn couldn' t do any effects that the Neo could, it can and more. I said that it has never done the same level of sprite detail with that high a level of animation. I meant this as a comparison not to SNK saturn ports, but against Capcom' s 4MB cart titles. SNK' s Saturn ports are not representive of the machine' s potential due to the fact they only use the 1MB Ram cart.

The Neo Geo CD uses 7MB as video memory, and this is not enough for high end Neo games like Garou, Last Blade is 99% close to perfect. The Saturn with the 4MB cart and using the maximum amount of video RAM would have a max of around 6MB for sprites and animation. Still not quite enough, especially if you want the game to load as fast as say X-Men VS SF.