What WILL PS3 be capable of?

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Gangsta the sad part about that is those killzone devs wont come close to doing such a thing they' ve never been known for their amazing game development.

Now what you should REALLY look forward to is the company making i-8 for the ps3 THOSE guys are talented and will most likely deliver everything you saw. Don' t expect much from killzone, because its going to fall way short of the pre-rendered stuff they showed at e3.

Keep in mind what people really need to understand is just because something is realtime doesn' t mean it can be pulled off ingame. For example MGS4. It was a realtime tech demo, but guys last I checked isn' t a radeon 9800 pro capable of flawlessly running that ruby doublecross demo from ati, but we all know it can' t pull off such a thing ingame. Then again the biggest hope for MGS4 is the fact that kojima is the person working on it or I' d expect alot of people to be disappointed. Now the graphics wont come close to what was shown in that mgs4 real-time demo, but kojima is the man so that game will be amazing and raiden is expected to become a huge fan favorite after mgs4.

Insomniac are great coders!

Opta, ...the memory issue?! You DID read my response right?!

Its a possibility the microsoft handheld device in 2007 will come with the mini directv receiver its what they are looking forward to doing, but it might not end up on the handheld it might end up as its own standalone accessory, but alot are in agreement that a mini directv receiver inside the microsoft handheld is the perfect 1-2 punch to deliver a new handheld to the market while delivering on the promise of directv support for the xbox360.

I mean a handheld device with a built in directv receiver isn' t half bad at all (another attention grabber for the handheld among the other features)

The coaxial wont be exposed like people are use to seeing on the back of most directv receivers there will most likely be some sort of material somewhere on the device hiding the coaxial connection and people can choose to expose it or hide it if they so please. Naturally the only time they' ll want to expose it is when they are at home about to connect it to their 360 to enable the directv support. Usb connection to attach the handheld to the 360 and the typical coaxial cable you' d put in the back of your receiver is what would go on coaxial connector on the handheld.

I can' t guarantee they will follow through on the mini receiver for the handheld, that is up to mr feldstein. Still I CAN guarantee it has been a constant part of converations for over 3 months now.

I read your response about the memory I' ll be looking into it.


Something that makes me wonder though is sony recently bought guerilla games the guys making killzone and sony doesn' t make a habit out of buying joke developers so I guess from that alone there is hope that sony must' ve had an inside look at something amazing regarding killzone for the ps3 and thought they should buy guerilla. Still many are doubting the possibility of guerilla games to make such a huge turnaround, but I usually like to be optimistic so I hope they can produce something that will as a result cause bungie to want to out do killzone.


Another thing to be on the lookout for is an unlocking of the 360' s 1080p support. The 360 is fully capable of showing off at 1080p, but 1080p hdtvs are currently very rare in households so I see the reason why it wasn' t unlocked as of yet.

Keep in mind though microsoft has stressed since day 1 that the 360 is future proof. A simple accessory can unlock the 360' s 1080p support and allow the videocard to truly show off. In a way I guess you can say the 360 even though 2 months and a couple days on the market still hasn' t been fully revealed. Microsoft wants to continually surprise its customers (and sony) by revealing new details year after year regarding the 360. All it' d take is a $10 accessory and there can be 1080p support for the 360. (Whats to stop the engineers from putting such an accessory on the handheld device?) Its all a matter of when microsoft chooses to reveal its cards.

Gangsta the sad part about that is those killzone devs wont come close to doing such a thing they' ve never been known for their amazing game development.

I wouldn' t be so sure - they got the user feedback on killzone and the design was much more sophisticated than many games out there - 4 team members (that are actually significant) - each wit his own twists in every level.Story - fantastic FMV sequences with movie like quality (of acting and script) - great Storytelling.Weapons so cool damn.And the idea behind it - I mean the design of the graphics(and the variety of leves).

Killzone wasn' t that big , but it looks like it could' ve been the best FPP ever on GameCube ,XBOX or PC (or other more powerful system).

If you haven' t finished that game you won' t understand - I kept saying what a silly shit it is untill now (I played the first level long time ago).

I changed my mind since that game rocks after you get through those first mediocre 3 - 4 levels :)

I' ll clarify...

Both units have 512Mb of DDR3 RAM. PS3 has it spilt in two, with 256Mb memory for CELL and 256Mb memory for the RSX chip. BUT, the RSX can render into the whole 512Mb if required.

In contrast, 360' s memory is shared between the CPU and GPU and can be devided however the devloper requires (a huge advantage), but in addition 360' s GPU has 10Mb of very fast EDRAM which will be used for things like aliasing issues.

360 is by far the more flexible console, but it gets complicated when you look at CELLS structure because each of it' s SPE' s have 256KB that can be accessed at full speed.

The bandwidth difference is massive though! PS3 has 25.6 GB/s main memory bandwidth and 22.4 GB/s video memory bandwidth but 360 has 22.4 GB/s main memory bandwidth but an incredible 256 GB/s to eDRAM and 21.6 GB/s FSB that will be harnessed by the GPU.

It doesn' t matter without MAJOR support though. Microsoft need exclusives and need to get big developer on boards. Bloody RE5 is in limbo at the moment, i' d hoped it would make Q2 but it won' t!

Back to RE4 Mercenaries then!
360 is still capable of more impressive visuals though.

I hear ya I want to see all developers pushing the envelope. Regardless of who does the most pushing it' ll be beneficial to the consumers.

Watch out for Splinter Cell Double Agent :) If anyone has seen the trailers recently a good amount in those scenes are fully playable. Its ubisoft' s new thing called directed moments where they blur the line between pre-rendered cinematics and actual ingame footage to create a fully playable experience designed to immerse the player more into a game than was previously possible.

Expect splinter cell to set the bar really high for mgs4, but kojima is always up for the challenge.
'
Oh in regards re5 capcom wants to release it simultaneously on all platforms. So any holdup is no doubt because of that very reason. Also they are showing a particular interest in the revolution so that is another thing to consider as they want to make use of the revo' s controller.


There are alot of surprise games in the horizon that I can' t mention, but microsoft is getting ALOT of support. Honestly wouldn' t expect any significant sale increases in japan for the 360 until sakaguchi' s games arrive and ESPECIALLY till the ps3 arrives. The japanese market needs to see what the ps3 has to offer first before feeling comfortable buying a 360 without thinking they went for the inferior product.

Nonetheless the biggest gaming markets are europe and north america in which the 360 has a strong following, but success will take place in japan its just a matter of when. The ps3 getting settled into the market is what will push more 360 sales. The japanese market are being very cautious as the original xbox had little japanese support they want to be assured of that before they invest in one. They' ll be convinced soon enough though.


Expect a major announcement from square regarding the xbox360 at E3.

Resident for revolution - that won' t be RE5 - they are considering making a new one especially for rev.

Splinter Cell always looks great but I prefer MGS graphics over it (style) - especially when characters animation and movements suck , that takes away from graphics realism

About Cell itself - it is said that it' s phenomenal power is good mostly for a computer that calculates a lot of data - not a gaming machine.If they can somehow utilise it , it could be great.

What MAijk says about 360 and PS3 performance boils down to one thing:

No matter how powerful both systems are , PS3 is not optimised to run at peak performance (and 360 is).That means that it doesn' t matter how powerful the CPU or GPU is , because any system is as powerful as the weakest part of it.And for ps3 that' s bandwidth

Yeah but it' s not quite that simple. 360, being the more accessible machine for developers, and having a dedicated and expansive toolkit means that it will reach it' s full potential much quicker than PS3. PS3 will just keep gradually getting better and better but still won' t graphically surpass 360.

I expect longer loading times from Sonys machine too.

thanx for the info optviousx, I' d read those numbers already on another website a while ago, so Majik, do some good searching on google, u can find all that info.

I noticed u were talking about the Killzone trailer at E3, and the whole 5fps thing. There is a show on SpikeTV (north america) called GameHead (you can see the episodes on GameTrailers). They had an interview with the owner of Blur studios (tim miller, these guys have made a lot of cutscenes and trailers, especially Hellgate trailer which blew me away). Tim said that he got offered to make the killzone trailer by sony and he refused, so instead they went to a scottish animation studio. Tim also said the scottish studio didn' t do a good job at making the trailer cuz they obviously don' t have much experience. So whatever those stories about 5 fps and what not, it' s all bullshit if u ask me, probabily some story made so that ppl would think that the trailer did not look as good (if u looked closely,like Majik said, some blurred stuff and what not) because it was done at 5 fps bla bla, and not because in reality the animation studio sucked big balls.

Now that' s something i didn' t know about the 360 being able to naturally do 1080p/ that' s sick!! And yes, I too believe the 360 is very flexible and can probabily unlock features later on. It' s more flexible than the ps3 is hyped to be. As u can remember it was said that the ps3 is primarily an entertainment device, sony said it, but I don' t think it will come close to the 360 in the entertainment aspect (everything else but games).

Yea ati geared the 360 videocard to for really high definition gaming. Microsoft set the bar for the type of performance they were looking for and ati delivered.

The r580 already outperforms the ps3' s gpu at 1080p the 360 videocard which is superior can do it even more impressively. There are features on the 360' s gpu that wont even be available in directx 10 or windows graphics foundation 2.0 for windows vista such as memexport. It hosts many features that go beyond shader model 3.0.

In windows vista the new directx 10 treats all videocards as unified shader architecture videocards and that is what the 360 gpu is. What is even more impressive is the fact that the 360 is capable of pumping out graphics as good as project offset and running it smoothly.

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_projectoffset_videos.aspx

Go to that link and download the 1920x1080 (1080p) resolution video file. That game engine right there is one built to best be taken advantage of by a unified shader architecture. The only videocard available with such technology is the one inside the 360.


The 360 is capable of such graphics and we could very well end up seeing such graphics in a year or 2.


The 360 has alot more dev support this time around to become an even bigger competitor hey there are many areas in which the original xbox didn' t see a release, but the 360 will be seeing a release in those areas. Again be on the lookout for some major announcements from square enix at E3 regarding the 360.


You could say those graphics are better than the killzone pre rendered stuff.

If i remember correctly, i posted all the tech shit weeks ago. If you start googling stuff then you' ll just get loads of bullshit and half truthes. You either need to find out what developers have already said or speak to them yourself and get the information you need.

The games design course tutors at Teesside uni have been supplied with tons upon tons of stuff from developers and both Sony and Microsoft so i know all my information is reliable. What we know very little about is Revolution but we should get stuff through in the next couple of months (i would hope) leading up to E3.

Hey OptaviusX. Welcome to the forums! Obviously you are very knowledgeable about video games in general. I' d like to comment on a couple of things you talked about.

Firstly, a directv receiver in a handheld is the DUMBEST f*cking idea ever! If Microsoft does this, as opposed to using the existing technology in the 360, or implementing a stand-alone device (with the HD-DVD perhaps), then it' s just ridiculous! Who the hell wants to have their Directv disappear when little Timmy goes off to school? Then you come home, and you can' t play your portable games cause little sis is watching " the O.C." ! Nah! I don' t think it' ll happen.

Secondly, where did you get the info about the 360 supporting 1080p? I' ve read all along that its highest resolution is 1080i. This is one of the things Sony is jumping on MS about (saying " true" high definition doesn' t begin until the PS3 is released for that exact reason). I' ve no doubt that the 360s video card is up to snuff, but that' s just not what I heard.

Third, yeah, that Project Offset looks DAMN GOOD! Don' t you guys think it' s kinda similar to Oblivion, though? I mean, it may very well be technically superior in many ways, but Oblivion resembles it pretty closely, and it' s coming out SOON! Who knows when Project Offset will release! Hell, even Dark Sector, which was announced WAY before the launch of the 360, won' t be out until late 2007!

Well, I do hope the 360 performs well over in the land of the rising sun. It' s interesting that you say the launch of the PS3 may help the 360, as most people believe that if MS doesn' t get a leg up before the PS3 is released, then they don' t stand a chance. I like your thinking though, and it may well prove to be true. I guess only time will tell.

Third, yeah, that Project Offset looks DAMN GOOD! Don' t you guys think it' s kinda similar to Oblivion, though? I mean, it may very well be technically superior in many ways, but Oblivion resembles it pretty closely, and it' s coming out SOON! Who knows when Project Offset will release! Hell, even Dark Sector, which was announced WAY before the launch of the 360, won' t be out until late 2007

Project Offset is more like a fantasy Battlefield game!

I' m a little curious about you work with. And which company you work for. I understand if you don' t want to answer the question but it would be fun to know.
If you work as a taxi driver, then your' re in the wrong business .

The suspicion over at gamersreports.com is that he' s a Microsoft employee. It holds weight...

Some people here are bloody retarded!

I thought that he might be a MS employee considering how much he knows and how he seems to praise the 360 but in the end that just feels strange.
Anyway we are lucky we have you Majik. You can always check if what he says makes sence or not.

Maybe he is working for MS. I' ve read what he' s written in the other forum:
http://www.gamersreports.com/news/708/
http://www.gamersreports.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3942
Now, what why the hell would a real game developer take so much time posting those comments about the PS3? It doesn' t make any sence.
If he did work for MS though, it would. With a little spec mumbo jumbo he can easily make almost anyone in any forum believe that the PS3 is shit.
He knows too much.
Anyway it seems he' s a developer for Epic if you trust his own words.

Good God we have a spy here! :)

Nice one digging that up ginjirou. Developer at Epic eh?! I don' t think so somehow!

He did have his ' real?' name displayed on his profile for a while but looks to have removed it now. Surely putting your name up in the first place is a bad idea if you' re ' supposedly' leaking information.

He claims to be working for a teams at Epic (and why would an employee at Epic Games be slating the PS3 if Epic are working on UT2007 for the damn thing) that is developing a game for both the PS3 and 360. Why then does he claim to know inside information about Microsoft' s rumoured handheld? He just keeps repeating the same stuff over and again, and whiole i' ll be the first to state that 360 will have the advantage in the PS3' s first year on sale, i will concede that it' s more down to the developers than the actual hardware.

They' re comparable machines, we know that. People should only be interested in knowing that there won' t be that much difference between them and leave it at that. I mean, i know weeks ago i was talking figures like he is but in reality it doesn' t mean shit.

PS3 will be successful (Sony has pissed me off in the last 6 months though), probably more so than 360, but the marketshare will be closer by the end of this gen. Sony have a vast advantage due to their mindshare, that' s why loads of people will say they' ll buy it anyway even if they haven' t seen much of it yet.

Shit, MGS4 will be enough to convince me to spend £400 on the machine, give me Gradius and Virtua Fighter 5 too and i' ll be overjoyed!

I like games, i always have and that' s why i' m doing what i' m doing (though i' m not looking that forward to meeting deadlines). Anyone who seriously enjoys games should look do doing a course. Actually, Gangsta, what' s the situation in Poland like as far as games development courses goes?

I really wish there was a safe future in game development in denmark, that would be cool, if i wanted to ´do it, id be making Hitman games from now til never :P oh and i dont have the programming skills to do it. I could do some 3d or map making maybe ;)

Let the ps3 titles be announced,hell we dont even have a release date for ps3 yet,also alot of dev got dev kit and might be making game without saying a thing.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ORIGINAL: Vx Chemical

I really wish there was a safe future in game development in denmark, that would be cool, if i wanted to ´do it, id be making Hitman games from now til never :P oh and i dont have the programming skills to do it. I could do some 3d or map making maybe ;)

You should make it happen, man! Just go to school, and become the best at your trade. Then go out and form a team of people who compliment your skills. Eventually, you could be the programming lead, director, or advisor for EA: Denmark!! (eventually ALL developers will be part of EA! Trust me! It' s coming!)

Gangsta, what' s the situation in Poland like as far as games development courses goes?

Nothing like that even exist in here.
Games that are created in Poland never exceed the CRAP point.
Games are hard to get , consoles as well.
It really is bad.

I' m actually thinking about going to UK for some time.It' s a great place for gamers , not as good as US but still good.Plus you guys need Medical Staff -that' s where I come in :)

Well we' ll get together for an excessive number of beers then!

I just talked with my brother who has studied marketing and he says that lots of companies are using forums for marketing. Not that you need any education to realize that ...
And since MS has got a lot of money and videogames are one of the most popular topics on the Internet, using the forums as hidden commersial spots should be very useful for them. And the word in the forums will spread out. Out on the streets. Weither or not that guy was from MS or not, we should be careful when reading stuff on this or any forum.
I' m wondering, how many years from now will we be able to buy a PC with the same graphic capabilities as the 360 to an affordable price? The 360 seems to have huge potential if you just go by graphics.

I dunno. It' d cost over a grand if you wanted to replicate the technology as a PC. Depends where you buy your stuff from though. You won' t see PC graphics cards that can do what 360 can do until early next year. From a graphical standpoint it' s a great machine.

Anyway, enough about that. Check this out...

http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=TeamRyoukoFridayNightMadness4

Just download the Mpeg1 file on the left. You might have already seen it, but i love Team Ryouko, ...i saw them live when i was in Canada. I wanna be a Ninja too!

EDIT: Download this from here too...

http://tearsanddreams.tripod.com/id49.aspx

Well we' ll get together for an excessive number of beers then!

Bring your DS with you (and watch those stupid faces people make when they see two grownups drunk as fuck playing videogames) heheheh

I just talked with my brother who has studied marketing and he says that lots of companies are using forums for marketing. Not that you need any education to realize that ...

In that case at least 50% of kikizo members works for MS hehe

PC with the same graphic capabilities as the 360 to an affordable price? The 360 seems to have huge potential if you just go by graphics.

It' s hard to say - MS lovers will tell you that for a very long time.I think that this time PC' s will have to wait longer than ever to catch up.Dual Core CPU' s from intel may be out already , but haven' t been created with games in mind.X has three 3.2 cores based on POWER PC G4 but optimised for gaming.

I' d say it will take a year or 1,5 to catch up with the CPU performance even if they get dual core processors.

The GPU however is a bad boy that will make it into PC market somewhere in late 2006 , but not with all the innovations (10 MB buffer).

Having that said - for PC to beat a console in graphics department - it has to be much more powerful.If it' s performance equals this of X360 , games for 360 will look much better - console games are optimised and made for a specific hardware with no variations.Add to this that X may get some Japanese artist on it' s side and those guys make miracles with PS2.

I think it will take 2 -2,5 years to catch up and then there won' t be many noticable differences for at least a year.


Everyone says how oblivion looks incredbile and stuff , but look at the PC versions requirements :

Recommended:

* 3 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor
* 1 GB System RAM
* ATI X800 series, Nvidia GeForce 6800 series, or higher video card

the only thing that 360 lacks is RAM Memory - they can make a streaming engine for that.

Does it mean that Oblivion will work much better on 360? NO - those guys suck and they don' t optimise their games as much as they should.That' s what you get with PC developers onboard.

Check Quake 4 and it' s framerate issues on 360.

true gangsta. If half life 2 aftermath goes to the 360, after it comes out on the pc, i hope they make a good fucking port with no framerate issues.

gangsta, dual cores are out already. my cousin just got a asus a8n premium whatever, with athlon 64bit dual core (i think it' s called athlon x2 64 bit) clocked at 3.2 Ghz. He has only one nvidia 6800 GT, 256 MB, but soon will upgrade to two video cards, his motherboard is SLI enabled. anyways, dual cores are out already and athlon kicks Intel' s ass when it comes to performance in games (yes the processor is an important part too in games).

PCs won' t come near to the 360 for at least 3 years ppl. they have to do some major innovations on the pc market. they' re on the way with vista, winFX, and nvidia with their quad-SLI, yes 4 nvidia cards in one motherboard, whaaaat!!!! I think the new gaming PCs that have those will need liquid Nitrogen to keep the temp. down, lol. In my opinion ATI is the best video card maker.

The recommended settings are never for the highest quality of the game. also, PCs do many other things, so obviously even if tehcnically they can surpass a console, they won' t deliver as well a console, everyone knows that.

majik, those numbers u gave, I still had read them more than a month ago on the net, and things u find on the net are not bullshit all the time, cuz if u say ur numbers are correct, that means that what' s on the net is also correct since i saw the same numbers a while ago. jut pointing out.

can i come to england and drink beer too? I love beer. and we can have a cup o' tea in the evening with biscuits

MS guy or not, some shit he said made sense, so...I dun mind if he' s working for anyone, as long as the things he says are truthful, we' ll only know when E3 comes around...

ORIGINAL: Majikdra6on


Anyway, enough about that. Check this out...

http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=TeamRyoukoFridayNightMadness4

Just download the Mpeg1 file on the left. You might have already seen it, but i love Team Ryouko, ...i saw them live when i was in Canada. I wanna be a Ninja too!

EDIT: Download this from here too...

http://tearsanddreams.tripod.com/id49.aspx

That was kind of boring. What does Team Ryoko do anyway?
I prefer the ZeroGravity stunt team. You can watch their movies here:
http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/v.php/zerogravity
Incredible guys. Lateef can jump very high, He' s great at capoiera. Sam is great at sanda and Tony is great at kung fu. Roy kicks ass when it comes to wushu.
NordicAction is great to.

Man that was horrible!

I' ll stick with Team Ryouko and their real life Ninjitsu!

FULL FLEX!

Did you really watch any of the movies? Check out Lateefs, Tonys or Sams demo videos. The guys at Zerogravity are great at choreographing. The Ryoko guys just jumps around.

Hehe, I wished real Ninjutsu would be more like what these two teams do anyway.
Anyway, NOTHING beats the Beijing Wushu Team. If you find any videos with them performing their best, you' ll realize why they are the best.

Great at choreography they may be but i' m the kinda guy who prefers amateur porn over the big lable, mass produced hardcore stuff! Know what i mean?!

Ha, no Zerogravity are cool but Team Ryouko can do some funky shit. I' ll try and find the rest of their videos.

On another note, i just got a number of 360 faceplates (why would anyone want a silver faceplate for a white console?) given to me. The official ones suck but the ones i recieved from Joytech (the camo, transparent grey & blue and the matte black) are cool. I' m gonna put the black one on my console but the original doesn' t seem to want to come off. Is there a special trick to removing it without damaging something?

Hehe, yeah I know what you mean.
Do you have any pictures of those faceplates you can link or something?

Yeah, the best place to get stuff like that is play.com...

http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=search&searchtype=X360&searchstring=faceplate&page=search

Where do you live? US?

We get sent stupid shit mostly but somethimes something nice will come through like a years magazine subscription or stuff like these. Someone on campus has a Revolution controller thats a tv remote. I haven' t seen it myself yet but supposedly the guy was gonna sell it on eBay (moron).

Now, concept art scans are worth having!

it' s been said that it feels like harming your 360 when you take those faceplates off :)

360 is so advanced - do you think it can feel pain?

:)

Ha ha ha...lol!

I' ve gave up but i' ll have to figure out how to do it when i get back to my room (i' m in class at the moment). The default faceplate just didn' t want to come off and i didn' t want to force it. Anyone actually changed one yet?

360 is so advanced - do you think it can feel pain?

Technically the only console that can feel anything is the PlayStation 2 since it has an Emotion Engine

*groan*

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I wish PS2 could feel when it' s laser is burning ...

That way it could scream like a bitch " AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGH" and you would just turn it off :)

(and yes some bitches do scream like that :) )