Rareware....

everybody was fussing about how nintendo dared to sell rareware, i was one of those, i hated it specialy when i just got the gamecube , i bought this console for the major reason to play rare games, and then nintendo just sold it ...

years laters, it seems " for me" that nintendo sold rareware to microsoft because that developer is not what it used to be, i think rareware geniuses are gone, that' s why all of rare titltes now are not killer aps ... where is the time of donkey kong country, bonjoo and kazooie, bonjo and tooie, golden eye , perfect dark, killer instinct, conquer' s bad fur day and even diddy kong ... that developer pushed each nintendo' s console beyond its limit, nobody can deny that... so what happened to rareware ...

i think that rareware of today is ubisoft , well not really but at least in graphics, i think it' s the best developer out there ( far cry, prince of persia 1&3, splinter cell series, king kong, i must forget others ... i guess..)

Ahum...Yes ubi soft has taken up the name and rep that rare had today.
But lets think how rare works has been :S
Kameo and pdz was gonna come to Gc,then sold to MS and they had to restart their project to making those games into an xbox,then suddenly ms decie we want those 2 games to the release of xbox360 instead of releasing them 2006 to xbox.
And then they had to change hardware to an 360...
They had enough problems.
Their new games coming now,after kameo/pdz will show if they still have what it takes.
Yes we all know they are very good dev,but their rep is so-so at the moment.
Its not the n64 era when everything they made turned into gold as aba said.

Ghost recon and rainbowsix serie too btw ...
Yes ubi kick ass.
And they also gonna do the new turtles game :)

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Yeah Rare have had things shook up by the sale to Microsoft and their output for them has been a mixed bag. I liked Grabbed By The Ghoulies and Conker; Live & Reloaded was fantastic but Perfect Dark Zero (the most over hyped game for 360) was disappointing to say the least (terrible character animation, worse plot, shoddy cutscenes etc...), and yet Kameo although short was a work of genius.

360' s getting the next Banjoe game (obviously) and hopefully they' ll do another Killer Instinct!

I was quite dissapointed with PDZ, Kameo was good, but not amazing.

Id like to see Rare develop a sequel to Diddy Kong Racing. That was the best Karting game ever, and the best game available on the N64 imo.

diddy kong was whaaaaaaaaaat ???

did/do you own the n64 ???

Nintendo sold its interest in Rare to Microsoft because it was an expendible asset, which made absolute sense to offload at that time, and which was attractive to MS because of a rich IP catalog that came with the deal. Whether or not that investment has yet been worthwhile is obviously a hotly debated issue, but it has yet to be truly answered. Etc etc etc.

I think PDZ is awesome. I love the animations, I don' t know why you don' t know why anyone wouldn' t like them (perhaps you haven' t actually played the game). I never actually played Kameo, only watched my friend play it a bunch. Seems like a cool game, he liked it, but I' m not into that kind of game.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

I wasnt overly impressed with PDZ, but i wasnt dissapointed, its an okay game, they should have worked more on the story though, it actually started out interesting enough.

Kameo is my next game to be completed, since i finished King Kong today, which on an entirely different note, was a good game.

I havent played any rare games before PDZ, so they arent on a pinacle for me. I hope they make great game, because i like good games, not because i like Rare, dont judge them quite yet though.

I wouldn' t call Ubisoft " next Rare" - even from graphics perspective - they are good , but what RARE did with N64 was pure magic. But they had it easier since they were dedicated to one platform.

I think it' s not Rare that was amazing - it' s Nintendo-Rare , just like Silicon Nigts under Nintendo' s wing (Eternal Darkness) and then crapy remake of fantastic game (MGS).

Same goes for Retro Studios - they are amazing but in an interview they said that when Miyamoto came visiting for the first time it was like having the emperor inspecting Death Star.He cancelled 3 of their projects at that very day.

Another thing is that RARE always made games " forever" - since MS can' t have that luxury and wants some games for say Launch of 360 - they need to hurry.
And that doesn' t work for them.

I personally think that Conker was terrible on Xbox (comparing to what I' ve expected from it).

It could be that Rare is no longer that good or maybe they just need to adjust their skills and stuff for that new system and working with deadlines.

For now I don' t believe in Rare no more (and Perfect Dark was my No1 of all time).

They won' t have hard times changing my opinion - 1 outstanding title will do.

IF PDZ is that poor then N did the right thing selling them - it' s the most important franchise they have.Star Fox Adventures was a Zelda clone , Banjo - Mario clone ...and so on.

rareware had always the knack to push graphics to a very high level, from the snes...

i believe that banjo was an excellent franchise and both games were better than mario IMO.

i lost hope in rareware too, which is very sad, it used to be my exemple for all other developers...

adam doree, there will be no game released by rareware during 2006, and if they do then sure it' ll be crap as we know rare is soooo slow in their work, so may be we should wait 2007 and i don' t expect a lot.

I agree that Banjo was great , but the idea was taken from MArio and spiced up a bit.

It wasn' t supposed to mean that those games suck but that RARE is not that good at making their own (original) games.

But,what would n64 have been without rare?
So can be said about xbox without ubi soft.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

That' s Easy :)

Mario 64 ,
Zelda Ocarina of Time
Zelda Majora' s Mask
Beetle Adventure Racing
Paper Mario
1080 Snowboarding
WaveRace
Super Smash Bros
and so on.

But that' s true - for Europeans and US gamers Rare was a very important part of N64.

And there' s one game for X that Ubisoft makes very well - Splinter Cell (but it' s not poished enough to compare it to RARE' s doings for N64)

without rareware, n64 would be almost dead

nintendo killer aps were : mario 64, the two zeldas, mario kart.

rareware had kiler aps: golden eye, the two bonjo' s, perfect dark, conker' s bad fur day, perfect dark zero...

sorry i wasn' t here before. but why does everyone think Nintnedo ownd Rare for? Nintendo never owned Rare, everyone said it was stupid for nintendo to not buy rare but Miscrosoft beat them to the punch and they have yet to release one game worthy of their name from the N64 days. Nintendo would have never sold rare if they owned them. Nintendo brought out the best in rare. So far i fdon' t think Rare has earned it' s keep. THey have released like 3 games Grabbed by the ghoulies which got bad reviews and i heard was weak. Conkers bad fur day i hear was pretty but was a boring game with bad controlls. Now i hear Perfect dark Zero didn' t get good reviews and no where near as good as the original (gee i wonder why i read on 1up or gamesport or both that PD0 skipped going gold so they can rush it out in time for launch). Yes it would been cool if Nintendo owned Rare and still pumped out great games but from what i have seen i don' t think they are missing much except for the full licenses of their old games for the Rev download feature.

But Nintendo did own Rare.

52% or something , i' m sure it didn' t own it completely.

oh ok i think i read wrong they owned stock in them and could have bought them out completely but didn' t they were just second party and partly owned but not completely until MS made a stock offer and completely bought them right?

jet force gimini,donkey kong 64 and diddy kong racing was awesome too,made by rare.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I don' t think Rare has many ideas of their own. They usually just take others ideas or franshises and make slight changes. Star Fox Adventures for the GC is a perfect example. It' s just like Zelda but with Fox instead. It' s still a good game though.
Now that they don' t work with Nintendo anymore it seems difficult for them to make their own... nisch or whatever you would call it. Every game they have done has a better Nintendo counterpart.

Yepp,i agree,however goldeneye was no copy,was it? nor was PD.
Rare know their stuff,however donkey kong64 and diddy kong racing was just copies of the mario frenchies,however i think dkr was much better tehn mario kart.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

yeah that is what i was syaing too. Nintendo brought out the best in Rare. They have yet to make one solid good game on their own. Ms hasn' t really given them any inspiration.

Rare has their skills of course, otherwise they wouldn' t have been given the responsibility to develop Nintendos franshises or had the opportunity to create other games such as Golden Eye and PD. But, now that they don' t work with Nintendo anymore, they don' t have the same guidance as before which might make it hard for them to find their own style. PDZ was a simple sequel and the reviews haven' t exactly been great (except for multiplayer). Kameo is OK I guess but it' s not amazing which shows that that Rare still hasn' t learned to stand on their own legs.

I dont think its about guidance pdz/kameo was being dev for gc then xbox and then was rushed for the 360,and they was new to the hardware.
I will not judge them on pdz/kameo.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Maybe it was Nintendos guidance from before that made the 360 games work at all ?
Their result of their next projects will be interesting to see. Umm, what are they working on now btw?

ORIGINAL: Adam Doree

Nintendo sold its interest in Rare to Microsoft because it was an expendible asset, which made absolute sense to offload at that time, and which was attractive to MS because of a rich IP catalog that came with the deal. Whether or not that investment has yet been worthwhile is obviously a hotly debated issue, but only in 2006 will it truly be answered. And I really do mean, in 2006. Things will happen.

Ha, erm, ...do you know something we don' t?

Phoenixxx, if Nintendo didn' t own Rare then they wouldn' t have been able to sell them to Microsoft would they! Hence Rare being a 2nd Party developer for Nintendo at that time and not a 3rd...

Conker Live & Reloaded was great, especially on Xbox Live. I think now that they' ve gotten the 2 games that have been in development hell for years out of the way things will definately get better. Kameo is really good though!

If Nintendo sells Retro Studios they should burn in hell. They own Retro Studios, right?

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

If Nintendo sells Retro Studios they should burn in hell. They own Retro Studios, right?

Yep, Retro Studios are financed by the big N. Partnered with, is probably a better way to describe it, but i can' t see the relationship ending any time soon, especially considering that Metroid Prime 3 is currently in development!

Nintendo who owned 49% of the company, just weren' t happy with the games that Rare wanted to do. Nintendo didn' t like the adult nature of Conkers Bad Fur Day, and sold their share to Microsoft for $377. Trademarks of the characters from the games that Rare made for Nintendo consoles (such as Conker of Conker' s Bad Fur Day) were retained by Rare (apart from IP originally developed by Nintendo, i.e. Donkey Kong and Star Fox).

Rare, although now a Microsoft Games 1st party developer, is currently developing a title for Nintendo' s DS!

Developing for the DS? Hehe, MS really doesn' t see N as a threat. And you people thought Sony was arrogant.
Btw, why doesn' t MS make a portable console? Maybe they are developing one... They want to take over all aspects of entertainment so it should just be a matter of time. I hope the name will be more clever than Microsoft XP (Xbox Portable). Not to be confused with Windows XP

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Developing for the DS? Hehe, MS really doesn' t see N as a threat. And you people thought Sony was arrogant.
Btw, why doesn' t MS make a portable console? Maybe they are developing one... They want to take over all aspects of entertainment so it should just be a matter of time. I hope the name will be more clever than Microsoft XP (Xbox Portable). Not to be confused with Windows XP

Ha, XP, very good!

Yeah they' re developing for DS, just like they kept on doing GBA games. Microsoft don' t see Nintendo as a threat, and Microsoft know that even if they did enter the handheld race that they wouldn' t be able to compete with Nintendo anyway, just like Sony can' t. It makes perfect business sense to let Rare develop games for DS, since it gives them an edge over PSP and IT' S shoddy games (except Wipeout Pure which is great!).

Role on GBA 2!

i don' t think they want to chance it seeing how Nintendo is king of that realm destroying the PSP when it thought it would lose to it hehe.

they know better

Rare is working on something,what i dont know...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Well Microsoft don' t make stupid decisions, hence them being one of the richest companies in the world. Mr Gate himself is worth billions and has a personal wealth of over 90bn USD.

Destroying the PSP? The DS is much more popular and I like it more than the PSP regarding games. But destroying the PSP, I don' t know about that. The PSP is doing relatively good and since it' s targeting another audience than the DS. The DS is considered as a portable game console and Nintendo has never had any problems selling those in the past. Sure it' s got these new innovative things but average consumers still see the Nintendo brand and the GameBoy quality. The PSP on the other hand is a new kind of portable device, capable of playing games, movies and music. The targeted audience (people interested in all kinds of entertainment, not just games) have not yet been offered this kind of device before. It is very difficult to introduce a new kind of product to the market.

yes the psp is a pretty cool device but it' s expensive and it does stuff most peopel already have. i think the UMD is a DUMB idea. How many times will peopel buy the same movies over and over? Once on VHS, once on DVD, now they are expected to pay even more for the movie on UMD with no special features which is one of the best part of the DVD and now they have to buy it AGAIN on in High def and have to choose either Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD.

Look at the market in japan the PSP was tearing up the DS when it first came out then it just died off and the DS over took it and sold better sometimes at a rate of 3-1 and normally 2-1. People who don' t normall play games are playing the DS with it' s non-games, like brain training, nintendogs, all it' s cool puzzle games and coming soon Tetris in WIFI with Nitnendo themse like mario and zelda. I have yet to see one game worth buying the PSP for. I already can play Mp3s on my cell phone and if i wanted to watch movies on the go i can get a portable DVD player cheaper and over twice the size of the screen.

I have 9 games on the DS plus my GBA games (didn' t have a job for a while sho i couldn' t buy any) but there are tons i want to buy now that i do have a job and at Best buy hehe.

As I' ve said before, no device can do everything with such class, portability and quality as the PSP. The cellphone batteries should be used for calls and wapping. Don' t waste it on mp3 music. The portable DVD players are too big. Portable my ass. Would you want to carry your cell, your portable DVD-player, your DS and your iPod photo at the same time or would you rather carry a PSP? Considering the PSP combines the features of all those devices the price isn' t that bad. The UMDs are great because they are small but effecient which is crucial when you want something portable.
Not many games for the PSP? Well, its about preference. If you want to I can mention the games I think are good. The number would be pretty much the same as the amount of games I like for the DS.

i think the UMD is a DUMB idea. How many times will peopel buy the same movies over and over? Once on VHS, once on DVD, now they are expected to pay even more for the movie on UMD with no special features which is one of the best part of the DVD and now they have to buy it AGAIN on in High def and have to choose either Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD.

There are already a bunch of UMD movies with bonus features.. The Bourne Supremacy and American Pie 2 are just a few with a pretty decent amount of bonus extras..

Some bands are even releasing UMD Music discs complete with MORE stuff than what' s available in their DVD counterparts.. Full soundtracks, Interviews, Music videos, etc..
http://www.teampsp.co.uk/latest/umd-music-releases-announced-for-us.

I already can play Mp3s on my cell phone and if i wanted to watch movies on the go i can get a portable DVD player cheaper and over twice the size of the screen.

It' s all about portability and media convergence.. With the PSP I can simply reach into the inner pocket of my jacket and pull it out and either watch movies (disc-based OR customized) or play games whereever I am with just a single device.. Even the smallest portable DVD players don' t offer that kind of portability. In addition you also have it as a music player, although I use my Net-MD for all my musical needs.. It' s also a JPEG viewer and the web-browsing function is cool to..

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

ok go for it and i will name the games i think are good for the DS the PSP is easy from what i have seen the only that interestre me right now is lumines (and no i don' t care about a boring GTA game).

How often do you watch movies? If i really wanted to watch a movie i would just put it in a backpack. I work at best buy so i know we have some cool ones that are very portable and nice looking for cheaper then the PSP and much bigger screen. I don' t care about Ipods,they are the most returned item we have in the store they are crap and my boss said. The creative and the Archos are much better. Plus the Ipod is way too expensive my cell phone (the LG 9800) has good battery life and sounds really good with mp3s. PLus my cell phone and the portable DVD player are much more sturdy then the glassware PSP and i can use my REAL DVDs i already own with all the cool features liek behind the scens, bloopers, commentaries, etc..

Plus if you were gonna carry lots of stuff that have backpacks ans nwo they have thos enew pants with all the cool big pockets. plus i can through my DS in my back pocket and nto have to worry about it being destroyed or scratched or smudged (damn the SP smudges easy and looks crappy also when it smears).

Nah PSP is a great little unit. While it certainly lacks originality when it comes to games (Tomb Raider Legend looks promising...), it makes up for it with the other stuff it can do.

UMD' s while stupidly priced (£20 in th UK, which is $34.48), are a nice thing to have. I was a little gutted that some films like Kill Bill are in 2:35:1 widescreen which puts boarders at the top and bottom, but who cares?! I can carry around and watch Kill Bill anywhere!

The games so far have been a mixed bag, with Wipeout Pure being the best of the bunch and GTA showing what the machine can do (loading times are annoying though), but nothing else has really excited and it really needs to pick up.

As far as handheld gaming goes, the DS is night and day better than the PSP' s current crop. Games like Mario 64 DS, Mario Kart DS, Sonic Rush, Nintendogs, Viewtiful Joe etc are better than what the PSP can offer, but the PSP hold it' s own on the grounds that it can do more.

Do you walk with a backpack all the time? I don' t but I have a pocket all the time though and I can tell you that there is a PSP in it. I guess you look like an adventurer on the train eh? With the big-screens and all. I have an Hori Protective filter on my PSP. It keeps the screen as protected as a bulletproof west.
The reason I mentioned the iPod is because it can show photos and such from its memory, something the PSP can as well. Can you put your own ripped video files on your portable DVD-player? Or downloaded video material? I think not. But I can on my PSP. I can on my cell as well but the screen is quite small compared to the PSP (it' s huge for a cellphone).
My wanted PSP games (released and not mentioning any sports games): Kingdome of Paradise, GTA:LCS, Lumines, RIdge Racer, Socom US navy Seals, Twisted Metal, Virtua Tennis, Wipeout Pure, Mercury, Burnout Legends, Coded Arms, Rired Up, Grip Shift, Metal Gear Acid, Need For Speed Rivals/Most wanted, Prince of Persia Revelations (to bad the sound is bad though), Pursuit Force, Tony Hawks underground, WWE smackdown. That' s 19 games (I counted two NFS games as one). Impressive.
My wanted DS games:
Advance Wars DS, Castlevania Dos, Kirby Power Paintbrush, Mario Kart DS (this could actually count as five games ), Nintendogs, Polarium, Sonic Rush, Super Mario 64 DS. That' s eight (13 if Mario Kart gets what it deserves )
I guess I could add these DS games as interesting but I dont find them worth the full price: Lost in Blue, Touch Golf, Yoshis Touch and go, Meteos, Another Code.
Any questions?
Note that the PSP was released long after the DS!!