HD-DVD versus Bu-Ray

Hello everyone i am watching G4tv and they were having something about the CES show and the guy said that the Blu-Ray player will cost around $1800 which is WAY TOO MUCH and he also said the HD-DVD player will only cost $400 gee i wonder who will win. This is the Beta Vs VHS all over again and Sony has both expensive one (beta and BD-ROM). They are both High def so i wil choose HD-DVD. I knew this would happen and i knew HD-DVD would be cheaper so i didn' t buy into all the hype of Blu-Ray. I mean come on $1800? Compared to just $400?

I know you are probably wondering how this relates to video games well if the Blu-Ray Player will cost that much how much will the PS3 cost being not just a blu-ray player but as mr. Kutaragi says " a super computer for the home."

kinda scary when you think about it huh?

yeah well it' s not for you to decide which one you get - if Blue-ray has more support it will be the only HD medium that matters and it will be at many houses thanks to PS3.

This is terrible for us consumers - but Both HD DVD and Blue Ray have their flaws and none of the companies supporting them is honest.

1800$ is a lot but new technologies always start at high price point and when they settle down it' s not that bad.

HD DVD is a great solution for a cheap medium , but it' s not future proof(Capacity).Blue Ray on the other hand is great on paper but it remains to be seen how it shines in reality.

Did you know that China has come up with a next gen DVD that I heard is really reasonable? :)

Like I' ve been saying, the Blu-Ray player for the PS3 will likely be extremely half-assed, just like the PS2' s DVD player. Can you even consider that thing a real DVD player? Not really.

yeah I know that and you know that but milions of dumb people out there don' t and they are the ones who shape this industry not you and me :)

ORIGINAL: Joe Redifer

Like I' ve been saying, the Blu-Ray player for the PS3 will likely be extremely half-assed, just like the PS2' s DVD player. Can you even consider that thing a real DVD player? Not really.

I don' t get it. What was the problem with the PS2 dvd player? I used it for a while as my dvd player (until I upgraded to an upconversion unit) and it performed just fine. I mean, pop in a dvd, and it plays. Are there issues that are unbeknownst to me?

and cd' s costed min 30 dollar each when they where new,can you imagien paying 120 dollar just for the cd' s to FF8?
Not to mention to add the cost for the developement team Square-enix,and the tax they must pay SONY,we will be up easy at 170 dollars...
but that never happend,cause when you start mass produce something it will lower the cost extremly.

a single blu ray disc at september costed 60 dollars,basically double price as cd costed when they was new.

Its the same as with Plasma TV' s when they was new and not mass producing,only rich people and celeb could buy them.
Saw 32 tum plasma for 10.000 dollars when the ywas new.
Plz show me a 32 tum plasma that is medicore for 10.000 dollar today plz...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

hey gangsta what do you mean it' s not upto " me" to decide which one " I" get? It' s only upto me which one i get. Beta and VHS were not future proof and Beta was even better but VHS won because it' s cheaper. Most of the consumers don' t want to spend alot of money buying a new format they just want somehting that is cheap and high def which HD-DVD is. I might buy a HD-DVD player if it' s that cheap and no way in hell i wil buy a Blu-Ray Player for that much. I read that Samsung got smart and is making a multi format player to play DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray player. I am almost scared to ask how much. But Samsung is a smart company and they have risen to be one of the leading companies in technology. When i heard about that i was like cool maybe i wil just get that one. You do know there is a possibility that both will fail and the masses do not want to buy a new format yet and are happy with their normal DVDs seeing how small the HD user base is. But it' s obvious who might win and will get the most suport if the Blu-ray is $1800 and the HD-DVD $400 just like the DS vs. PSP the PSP is expensive and more powerful and the DS is cheaper and funner and is destroying the PSP in sales. Most people do not want to spend alot of money. If the HD-DVD being at $400 sells well companies wil support it more having a bigger user base.

It a tricky situation this really since many Film companies are now deciding to support both mediums.

Sony obviously has Blu-Ray tech in PS3 (which in the UK should retail for about £400), and Ken already said that the PS3 wasn' t a games machine (though it will play games) first and foremost.

PS3 will get Blu-Ray into people homes and that' s how Sony will make their money. I think games will come second to that.

The problem lies with Microsoft now backing away from HD-DVD. Any although initilally HD-DVD will be cheaper, the Blu-Ray prices will have to be competative or they just won' t sell.

Frankly i just don' t trust Sony and PS3. Perhaps if they' d shown ' real' footage at E3 & TGS (other than MGS4) then i' d be more comfortable. And rumours are circulating that PS3 might launch in North America in Sept/Nov (realistic), but possibly pushed back into early 2007.

I won' t be buying into Blu-Ray until everything settles down and we have a clear winner. They should really just stop arguing and make both compatible with any HD ready machine. We' re getting screwed!

I feel the same way you do. There was hope for the Unifed format but what i read and i wil lfind the article to prove it and not just say because i also not not trust Sony is that Toshiba was getting mad because SOny was trying to cheat them out and just say we will share but again like the Nintendo/Sony SNES PSX drive Sony wanted full control and Toshiba said now this is supposed to be a partnership and equal rights and control. This also happend with G4tv and Tech TV i liekd Techtv and i thought it was cool they were merging but G4 just swallowed up Techtv for it' s veiwwers and phased them out nbow i can' t watch any of the shows Tech Tv had because G4 canceled them all. Anywho I think it was only fair that Toshiba wanted equal control seeing how HD-DVD are cheaper to produce and basically there is not real different in themovie quality they will both be high def just Blu-Ray has more space and if they are the same size that means all that extra space wil be wasted.

Yeah. I really don' t see why i should make the move to HD yet. I mean, i' m using my 22" CRT for my and until prices come down i don' t think i' ll be getting a Blu-Ray player, any Blu-Ray Dvds or a PS3. I think Sony have a lot of work to do.

Does anyone know when Blu-Ray or HD-DVD actually launch proper?

....not only is HD-DVD cheaper, it will also play in your current Mac/PC... ...useful when you consider that almost everyone uses a ' High Definition' LCD screen as standard....

...plus you can Copy, Rip and Backup HD-DVD too.... something Sony and most Movie companies would like to put an end to...

...personally i don' t buy into HD anyway... .. i think it' s just Corporate BS designed to generate more income in a sagging technology market (the fact that the DVD player under your tv ' can' t' play a higher capacity DVD is just plain extortion). ..most people have only very recently upgraded to DVD and a larger/wider/flatter tv... now we gotta ditch all that newish hardware and media, and start over again? for more money this time?? ...

..Sony and Microsoft especially, are trying to force you into HD two or three years early...

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Hd dvd is cheaper and got the movie companies i like.
However seeing how blu-ray can take 50 gb,it must be a nice thing for any developer,seeing how they could add many previous games demos,movies etc etc in their games.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Hey what' s wrong with having games on more than one disc? I remember playing Shenmue 2 on the DC and then playing it on the Xbox. All the magic that surrounded the disc change had sadly disappeared! It' s like when you played FFVII " Wow, I get to change discs" . Man, that was magic. The feeling of progress you get when you know you have played an entire CD.
HD is overestimated. Shit, big screens are also overestimated. I watch a good movie or play a fun game because it' s great, not because the screen is big or have super resolution. I don' t want to waste my money on Sony and other hardware manufacturers just because they hype up the next step in technology.
You are all fools who fall for their tricks. They don' t try to sell you stuff by saying it' s better than something else, they sell it by first creating a demand from the buyer by making him think " Oh yeah, I really NEED that" but in reality he really doesn' t need the new product. It' s all psychology and marketing and you have all fallen for it. It' s really sad.

Well of course it is. BUt it' s cool and i am a tech person i love new technology. THere is this TV i want which is beautiful you can totally tell the difference between HD and old CRTs the onw i saw is a 67" Samsung DLP with a 1920x1080p resolution and one of the coolest features is that it has PC input and split screen PIP so you can have half the screen be the PC and half be the TV or PC and video game system hell you and a friend or loved one can play 2 different consoles on one screen. and half of 67 is still 33.5" which is a nice size screen. Since i work at best buy i get a nice discount on it normally $5500 which is a hell of a deal seeing how LCD and Plasms which are inferior technologies for the same size screen would cost 2-3 times more. If you don' t notice a difference you are blind there is a totally noticeable difference. Plus it' s a AWESOME looking BIG ASS Tv everyone always stops to look at admire it.

Although at $1800 i don' t see how Sony plans make any money off it. $400 is still alot of money but it' s a much more reasonable price for new technology seeing how MS will incorporate HD-DVD in the Xbox 360 and windows like Vista and XP.

ginjirou what a crap^talk, of course we need a better storage for this new gen and for hdtv, same move from cd' s to dvd' s why won' t you say then

" hey why should i use a dvd, they can burn that game on 7 cd' s why not and i' ll keep changing whenever it is needed??" but hey ginjirou wake up this is not how it works , and don' t compare actual games with games released in 3 years. if you have to store so many textures that will make the enviromeent look realistic then i don' t think that a single dvd or two will be enough for an RPG.

Yeah well I' m getting one of those TV' s too because they really are amazing. But I think they are advancing the technology too fast and they are really hyping things up. It' s not nice towards us customers. I mean, to keep up with technology you' ll have to buy a new TV every year. And to that you add new sound systems, DVD-players, music-players, videogame consoles, PCs, Internet connections etc. It' s just too much at once. And when you' ve managed to get all that stuff you realize that there' s already something new on the market.
During the whole time between the NES and the N64, you didn' t have to buy a new TV to experience the new games. But from the Xbox to the 360 we have gone from 28" normal TV to 32" wide-screen TV to progressive scan technology to LCD TV to 42" plasma TV and now finally to 42" HDTV.

I remember playing FF on CD and thinking WOW a FF on DVD i can' t imaghine how big that wil be but back then we didn' t account for digital audio and speech which takes up alot of space and higher resolution and textures. For Movies HD-DVD is plenty. For big games a Blu-Ray since it stores more might be needed but i don' t mind having to exhange disks. It does feel cool knowing i went through one entire disk and to havre to put in a new one. THere is even a new technology i read on engaget about a holo-disk holding upto like 200-300 GBs which is alot more then Blu-ray and HD-DVD and DVD combined. THere wil always be new formats.

According to www.gametrailers.com the new HD-drive for the Xbox360 might only be used for movies and not games.
Full article here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=2804

But that' s just what they believe. Nothing is certain yet...?

it is certain, microsoft already confirmed this, there is so far no plan to have 360 games on hd dvd... i don' t remember the source but i' ve read that in a couple of places and those don' t bullshit.

But how does that make any sence? I mean if you have the ability to use HD-DVDs for games, and if you have used money to develop such a drive then why not allow games on HD-DVDs?

yeah i see where you are coming from but get this this is optional if you want to see movies but if they make games for it then everyone has to get it and it will piss some people off about having to soend more money for it. So in a way i understand why they are doing that it' s just to make the movies in HD just like the games already are suposed to be (not the current ones seeing how they only use a portion of the power and are rushed, also Perfect dark zero even skipped going gold they just put it out which was a big gamble)

Ah, I see. Now that' s punishment for rushing the 360. If they would have waited and released at the same time as PS3 or Rev they probably would have gotten the HD-drive in the package. But they probably knew they wouldn' t stand a chance against PS3

yeah honestly i think you are right the Rev and the PS3 would have probably crushed the 360 in Japan. In the US and EU it might have a chance but i read they rushed it to give them some lee-way (how ever you spell that).

...leeway..

...if 360 games only use ordinary DVD' s and PS3 games will be using the mega capacity Blue-Ray, what does that say about the detail going into 360 games verses PS3 games?

...does this mean that PS3 is going to be more powerful than 360 by quite a large margin? ...if they are similarly specd, why are all 360 games on ordinary DVD??

..... or will MS just prefer to relese the odd game on multiple DVD' s.... cheaper perhaps?.....

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You' re forgetting about compression here guys. Compression technology gets better every year. Take Nintendo for example. I' m absolutely blown away that they can fit amazing looking games that rival Xbox games graphically - and their Mini discs max out at around 1GB.

You can bet that Microsoft (and Nintendo for the Rev) have excellent strategies to fit large amounts of data onto a dual layer DVD. Personally I still think that it' s a year or so too early for next generation disc formats so I don' t disagree with Microsoft' s or Nintendo' s decisions. Not only are they saving us a lot of money (and the inevitable bugs and glitches that come with new tech), they are also probably able to fit close to a single layer HD-DVD worth of data on a dual layer DVD using compression techniques.

As I' ve said before, I doubt Blu-Ray will ever find its feet in the consumer market. Toshiba' s HD-DVD requires very little modification to existing equipment and in the long run it will be cheaper for manufacturers and the end user. Hence the number of major movie production companies supporting HD-DVD is much greater than Blu-Ray' s.

HD-DVD has also gotten a lot more support from publishing execs for movies, simply because of the name. The Disk cannot hold as much as Blu-Ray (which can go to 4 layers equaling 100GB) but is cheaper and more versatile in that its a stem from current technology.

Consumers like the HD prefix as it conveys the improvement over DVD where as Blu-Ray, well it sounds like some space age science fiction energy which doesn' t really appeal to anyone. I have a strong feeling that Blu-Ray will end up with the same proprietary fate as Sony' s " we' re the only ones using these so nyerr" other products. (Mini-Disc, BetaMax, Sony Memory Stick, etc)

either you pay abit extra for a hd dvd/blu ray or you gonna have to swap disc in some rare games...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

yeah i was thinking that right now DVD' s are really cheap and it all depends on their compression utility plus they can leave out some stuff and just download them like a service pack on the 360 or something. I read and knwo that Nintendo has one of the best compression utilities around look hat they can fit on the DS cards and the GC minidisk like RE4. Plus i read that some companies might pull suport for the PS3 because it is very complex and expensive to create games which doesn' t allow small companies to make them. Like Nintendo is independant friendly the games are easy and cheap to make (brain training for example). THe PS3 cell architechture and their supposed graphical power which is supposed to be similar to 2 sli-ed 7800' s and programming on blu ray i read is difficult which might deter people away.

i am just amazed $1800 for what? is it made out of gold? How is the Blu-Ray player that much more powerful if the HD-DVD movie is pretty much the same damn thing like same resolution what more can they possible add to fill the space. and HD-DVD already has the name recognition most people who are not tech savy have no clue what Blu-ray is and what it means but they know what HD-DVD is and means, plus being only $400-500 compared to $1800 i don' t see how Sony will win despite being on the PS3 and how expensive will that be not only being a Blu-ray player but also a super computer with a expensive cell chip and a $1000 graphics chip(s). Even is they do sell it for $500 which right now seems like a big bargin compared to $1800 if it is released along side the Rev (approx $150-200) who do you think the masses and non-hardcore gamers will choose especially if the Rev will play the new Zelda and every other GC game people wanna play but just never got a GC and right now Nostalgia is popular (with all those old compilation games) being able to download 20 years of fun old games. Also by then the X360 will have it' s big games like HOPEFULLY the mistwalker games wil be awesome and i hope. Also the infamous Halo 3 and gears of war and the new game Black (i think it is by the makers of Burnout series which is getting big buzz).

I can' t see the PS3 being the must have thing and the clear winner like everyone thinks (outside of the sony fanboys, no matter what you say to them it already is).

Blue Ray is better than HD-DVD in that it can hold more, but HD-DVD holds enough for a movie so it isn' t really a big deal.
HD-DVD is a lot cheaper than Blue Ray.
Looks like more movies are coming out on HD-DVD than Blue Ray.
Eventually I' ll end up getting a drive for my computer.

Looks to me like HD-DVD will win. Sony didn' t learn their lesson with betamax. I really like having better technology but sometimes it isn' t worth the price. I' ll probably end up getting an HD-DVD drive.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

yeah i feel the same way but here is a cliche for you.

Size does not matter it' s how you use it

but exactly what you said most powerful does not really matter to most, cheaper is what drives people to buy it look at the gameboy the old black and white one went up against nice looking beautiful colored handhelds like the Gamegear, the lynx, and the turbo express which i loved it played every game from the console itself and it looked better then the actual TVs and had a TV tuner but the GB mangled it because the turbo express was more expensive.

Its not made of gold,nor was the cd' s who costed 30 dollar each....
Its all about mass producing,and only a few ex out today.
Its like saying a ferrari is worth its many millions...wait untill massproducing starts happends,and when sony really care about selling their product,and you will get a normal product cost.
I dare you to remember 1800 dollar and see how long that price last...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

....not only is HD-DVD cheaper, it will also play in your current Mac/PC... ...useful when you consider that almost everyone uses a ' High Definition' LCD screen as standard....

100% FALSE! HD-DVD is based on a completely different laser technology (blue-violet lasers, as opposed to red lasers). No standard (red laser) dvd drive will be able to read HD-DVDs. The pits are too small for the laser to pick up.

As far as what everybody else is spouting out in this thread, I don' t know where you guys get your information. You people must have crystal balls or something, because I don' t recall ANY information being given as to the prices on the PS3 or the Revolution. The speculation that has been thrown around in this thread as if it were actual fact is just appalling (as well as the grammer and punctuation, but I digress).

Back on topic. HD-DVD is perfect for movies. You can fit a full length high def movie on one. What else do you need? Don' t get me wrong; I LOVE the bestest of the best as far as technology is concerned, but Blu-Ray for movies is overkill (unless you' re talking about LOTR. I don' t think a four hour HD movie would fit on an HD-DVD, but I could be wrong.) As for video games on these " super discs" , I don' t think it' s THAT necessary. I know a couple of people will disagree with me here (and BOY, will they!), but I' ve been really impressed thus far with the games for the 360. Will there be a need for higher capacity in the future? Definitely. Will the need occur before the NEXT next generation? I guess only time will tell.

" As far as what everybody else is spouting out in this thread, I don' t know where you guys get your information. You people must have crystal balls or something, because I don' t recall ANY information being given as to the prices on the PS3 or the Revolution. The speculation that has been thrown around in this thread as if it were actual fact is just appalling (as well as the grammer and punctuation, but I digress)." - Chee Saw



Most of the pricing information comes from respected industry analysts, who base their assumptions on the technology included and how much it would have to sell for in order to be profitable.

Sony are still saying spring, but they have PS3 on display in a case at CES, with the controller awol and ' conceptual design' printed next to the console. So they don' t have a final controller (which is a good thing because the thing at E3 was terrible), they are still looking at the console design, Blu-Ray drives cost loads and they have yet to release pricing info for the console other than saying it' ll be " ..expensive.." .

While nothing has been confrimed, i expect a price similar to the original Playstation launch price in the UK of around £400 (708.196 USD).

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

....not only is HD-DVD cheaper, it will also play in your current Mac/PC... ...useful when you consider that almost everyone uses a ' High Definition' LCD screen as standard....


Chee Saw
100% FALSE! HD-DVD is based on a completely different laser technology (blue-violet lasers, as opposed to red lasers). No standard (red laser) dvd drive will be able to read HD-DVDs. The pits are too small for the laser to pick up.

...forgive me Mr. Saw...

...i should of known that you PC girls would be incapable of matching a Graphics, Video and Style powerhouse that is Apple...



...that' s the DVD Player on my stunningly awesome 2Ghz Dual PowerMac G5... .....I' m currently considering getting " Island Girls 3" to see just how good HD is...

....10 points if anyone can guess what film i had running in the background...

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ORIGINAL: Bishonen

ORIGINAL: Bishonen

....not only is HD-DVD cheaper, it will also play in your current Mac/PC... ...useful when you consider that almost everyone uses a ' High Definition' LCD screen as standard....


Chee Saw
100% FALSE! HD-DVD is based on a completely different laser technology (blue-violet lasers, as opposed to red lasers). No standard (red laser) dvd drive will be able to read HD-DVDs. The pits are too small for the laser to pick up.

...forgive me Mr. Saw...

...i should of known that you PC girls would be incapable of matching a Graphics, Video and Style powerhouse that is Apple...



...that' s the DVD Player on my stunningly awesome 2Ghz Dual PowerMac G5... .....I' m currently considering getting " Island Girls 3" to see just how good HD is...

....10 points if anyone can guess what film i had running in the background...

Final Fantasy; The Spirits Within!!!

to majik good job
I didn' t even notice it until you mentioned it.

to chee saw we are just speculating what the price is by reading what other sites are saying.

Hey bishonen what is island girls 3? sounds like a porn

And will blue ray not play plain dvds ?
And is there no way for it to support HD-DVD discs.
just asking

I don' t think people will want to spend the money on the either disc if they can get it on plain dvds at least at first
Dvds took a while to get mainstream

the price is a key point

not sure about all Blu-Ray players playing normal DVDs but i read that Samsung will release a multi-format player which will play normal DVDs, HD-DVDs, and Blu-ray. I am worried about the price but Samsung is a smart company they know it won' t sell if it' s too high like one Shown at CES for $1800 so we will have to wait and see. I was told at work that the HD-DVD players should arrive at work in the next couple weeks (i work at Best Buy).

Didn' t some guy at Nintendo recently said officially that the Rev price would be below 299$ or something?

Majikdra6on Final Fantasy; The Spirits Within!!!

....7 points, ' cause i just realised you could see a bit of the logo!..

Phoenixxx1974 Hey bishonen what is island girls 3?

Oohhh baby!

...just don' t tell your mom....

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hehe i was right it is porn in high def haha.