WOW! Japan sure does hate the Xbox brand.

I agree that japanese games are the best...well it depend on what genre you like but mainly japanese rpg' s are so much better.
The only good games europeans/usa market can make are fantasy like baldurs gate or sci fi like sw:kotor,now dont get me wrong i love those games,in fact i think they are some of the best rpgs i ever played.
But still i prefer my dragon quest/Final Fantasy/tales of,thats just how it is.
And yes its coming new rpgs like mass effect, and... um...well...
TT.
Japanese rpgs are coming like american fps,and they deliver quality.
About the " sales talk" yes your right,those japanese rpg that sell more is games i prefer myself much more,but look at pokemon...140 million copies sold now >_> Some game sells by its name and arn' t so awesome,okay pokemon kick ass,and if i was a kid today i would probably love it to like hell,and yes thats their market(even if you or me can try and play some pokemon its still their market).

Btw back to xbox talking,i think xbox had enough exclusive and awesome titles...
and halo2 is a live game...
The SP was made so bungie could cream out a 3rd...very lame,the end sucked,but they gaved that back by giving great MP.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

i don' t see a goo d value of owning an xbox if you own a ps2 and a decent pc

But im glad i got my xbox,so i get to play ninja gaiden,panzer dragon oorta,xbl,shenmue2,halo1/halo2,splinter cell with control+xbl,ghost recon the same,pgr2,crimsonskies,jade empire,kingdom under fire,doa3,top spin,rallisport challenge2,motogp2 and abe...
well i think xbox was a solid and great console,its multiplattform games was better wth bette rgraphic+xbl support.

However if you got a ps2+pc,a xbox might not be so tempting...for a rpg lover.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I dont like the settings in japs rpgs, and the stories half the time dont make sense.

For me there is no reason to get a PS2, since i dont like any of the games on the system, and the only games i do like a ported to the xbox anyway.

People buy playstation, because they' ve always had playstation, and had people always had xbox, that would be the system where people got their Japs RPG.

I dont think you should count on Sony coming out much a head of Microsoft in Europe and the US this time around, all of my Sony fanatic friends have given up their consoles because of Xbox' s strong lineup.

Comeone mention a good game for the PS3, without it being japs rpg, god or war, or Shadow of the colussus which hasnt been released for another console?

...Metal gear solid serie,pro evolution soccer,gran turismo...tony hawk,virtua fighter 4,devil may cry,ratchet & clank,jack & dexter,tekken5...and yes even killzone,i liked it very much.

Ofc all psx games works too so... but nvm

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

You don' t like any of the games on PS2?
If you like less than 10 games on the PS2, then you either have bad taste, or are really stupid.
I know it' s usually a matter of preference about which console you prefer but the PS2 has such a wide variety of games that it should be impossible for anyone to like less than 10 games.
Judging by you statements, I think you have never given the console a slightest chance. You probably just hate Sony and PS and prefers Xbox for no good reason.

Well I gave a fairly comprehensive list of PS2 titles I loved earlier. And Quezcatol gave us a pretty long list of xbox (and ps2) games he liked just now.

When I read his xbox list tho, there wasnt a single game I would' ve bought, but thats just me. This generation has a pretty clear split between the types of games released on each system. Some people like the xbox style, and others like me like the PS2 style. XBox doesnt have a single title as good as Killer 7, Silent Hill or ZoE2 (all non-rgps!), but then PS2 doesnt have a single title like Halo, Ninja Gaiden, Splinter Cell or Rainbow Six (Shinobi and MGS have a different style imo).

BUT the next generation maybe completely different. 360 might have more japanese influenced games, if more PS2 owners like me buy into it. Joanna Dark already looks more ' anime' like this time! And PS3s games may completely suck with a lack of developer support. In an interview on 1up, Kaz Hirai from Playstation seems to think that PS2 owners will automatically buy a PS3, but that' s not necessarily the case. As Vx said, if rpg people buy the 360, that' s what system the rpgs are gonna come out for. But its not looking good in Japan atm!

I have owned a PS2 actually, but it just wasnt my thing. If it was i would have kept it. Calling me stupid is just about the same as calling you stupid for not being able to find good Xbox games you' d want to play, there are games i would have like play, to my luck most of them has been released by Ubisoft on all consoles.

Yes PS2 has tekken, but i like DOA better, Jak & Daxter was destroyed after the first game, i dont play sports games, racing games i like it more arcade so Burnout or PGR is better for me, Halo is alot better than Killzone. i would have liked to try Devil May Cry, but i get Ninja Gaiden instead.

It is a matter pf preference, we are all biased to our prefered console. The only thing, i can see that the Xbox is missing is the Japs rpg' s, otherwise each console has similar lineups just in different franchises.

Furthermore, Sony deservers a little bad wind, because of all the lie' s they pull out of the pocket to market their things, and the worst part is, people actually buy into it without knowing other facts than Sony says PS3 will be the best console!

MS lies too,xbox was gonna be more powerful then it was,i cant remember what they said now,but some other here probably do.
They also fooled us with talking about wireless/hdd being next drive,still those are not in every xbox360,which developers has decied,not take 100% use of a hdd.
They promised a better price for europe,only ones who got it was UK,in sweden xbox360 cost 550 dollar,if it was 400 i had bought one now.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I never heard them claim it would be cheaper here. They have to take into account our super high sales taxes here in europe.

Look at the PS2 tech demos and see what they look like, than see PS2 cant show anything like it, like they claimed it would, Toy Story like graphics, yeah right.

Also they showed prerendered graphics only at E3, and tried to pass it off as the ingame stuff, too bad people ask questions right?

MS never promised a harddrive in the 360, they always said no comment, people assumed, but assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.

it' s not because you bought an xbox 360 that you' ll make it of it the best console ever, wait tile PS3 be released and you' ll see the diference in gaming, there is no way sony will release a console half year later with less raw power that' s just impossible but if this doesn' t mater to you , add the fan support and the brand name and this will make it a success...

for sony claim about PS2, it mostly under promised and over delivered.... gran turismo 3 , tekken tag tournament , bouncer those games does not match at all the quality graphic of PS2 games today, even that old man they showed; just play silent hill 3 and you' ll see better faces .... toy story graphics?? it' s george lucas who said that ..

Ms talked a lot about hd+wirless as standard.
You know as well as i,that ps3 will get a hdd too,however you buy it at the side,same with xbox360.
Anyway,about e3,the best looking rpg i ever seen and in real time was the ff7 tech demo made by a ps3.
WAs not pre-rendered at all.
About taxes,some xbox360 games cost 40-50 dollar in usa.
how can the price be 80 dollar-88 then in Sweden?
You think thats adding 25% in account,from 40-88?
No they using european market,and use whatever lie they can use.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I really don' t care how much they lie. They all lie. They' re companies, I don' t expect anything else. You can choose what lies to believe, what rumours to spread and which analysts who will be proven right, but what matters to me is the final release product.
Yes, Sony lied a lot. But I' m still very satisfied with their PS2. Very. In fact, I have never seen so much value in a single electronics product in my life. It has its problems, just like everything else, but in the end I really like it. And it was released far earlier than the Xbox. Only big problem is that the DVD-drive often breaks after a couple of years.
The Gamecube, well satisfied but compared to PS2, it just doesn' t have a library of games that is big enough. I' ll also have to question their design of the console. What keeps the Gamecube worth the money is the very good Nintendo franchises and the controller. The rumble isn' t powerfull but it has a very good feeling.
Xbox is powerfull and has a couple of good titles. But compared to PS2 it has less must-have titles (people who own XBox feel it has more because they consider everything a must-have-title since the Xbox lack of those). It' s big. It' s ugly. The controller only fits people with giant hands. I hate the rumble in the controller, feels like its broken or something.
That' s my view on the three consoles.
If you make a list of all the consoles must-have-titles (only exclusives count) based on the average reviewer grades, the PS2 is superior.

ORIGINAL: Abasoufiane

i don' t see a goo d value of owning an xbox if you own a ps2 and a decent pc

PS2: $150
Decent PC: $600
Total: $750

Xbox: $150

Now do you see the value?

Ginjirou, Xbox probably does have less MUST-HAVE titles than the PS2, but let me ask you; how many games do you own? If the PS2 has 5000 games in its library and, out of those, 1000 must have titles, while the Xbox has 2000 games in its library, and about 200 must have titles, what' s the difference? I own about 65 games from this generation. And that' s spread over ALL THREE systems! So what do I care if it only hase 200 must have games. I can' t buy them all anyway! It' s all about personal taste. Each individual has their own likes and dislikes. I' ve got about 50 games for the Xbox, but only 8 for the PS2! Of those, I only really enjoy about 4! Do I think the PS2 is a bad system? No (except for the controller!), but I enjoy the Xbox more. It has to do with me being a graphics whore, but that' s neither here not there.

chee saw, most of people that own x box or ps2 already own a decent pc since a pc in not only for gamin, so the 600$ include a lot and lot of " must" features...

but i agree with you when you said that you can' t own all games unless if you' re bill gate' s son ... or going to illigal games .

Actually,i own all 3 consoles,and 28 xbox games all orginel,and a great pc,and no im not bll gates son,its all about priority,and also i had a brother at my home who worked an bought us games.
So basically we bought 1-2 games per month.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

We all keep talking about preference, and its clear that me and Cheesaw prefer the xbox games. ofcourse im biased, even more since i dont own the ps2 anymore, but i do follow the market, and read the reviews, and games i want dont get released.

by the way Quezcatol, the FF7 was prerendered, they didnt show anything but prerendered graphics at E3. MGS4 and some mech game from what i' v heard are the only RT showings there have been of the PS3. Dont know if they' ve really finalized their hardware yet, rumors say they cant find the correct CPU speed, and keep it cool at the same time.

I havn' t heard that it was pre-rendered,what i do know that their ff6 tech demo for n64 and their tech demo for ps2 with ff8 was real,heck ff10 even looked a bit better even do people could not belive the change.

Square-enix is square-enix not sony.
And not sony europe as killzone2 video was.
Square-enix is famous for deliver some of the best graphic and quality,that video was real time without no doubt.

" Dont know if they' ve really finalized their hardware yet, rumors say they cant find the correct CPU speed, and keep it cool at the same time"

Itagaki(doa,ninja gaiden creator) made 4 alpha 360 kit to burn up,its not a new thing when its come to alpha,people tend to push them higher then they can take,and then speed up the FPS,as they claim they did with killzone.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

The FF7 demo at E3 was a video that captures the realtime engine. you have to realize there is a blurry line between realtime engine stuff and prerendered. Technically even though it was the realtime engine being shown, it was not running in realtime. It was prerendered and put on a DVD like basically all of the Sony stuff shown. Fight Night was full fledged realtime because you actually saw them playing it. Unreal Tournament 2007 was fully realtime because again, you saw them moving the camera and stuff.

Basically while the FF7 demo was using a realtime engine it was not running in realtime. I have no dobt that quare Enix will pump out graphics of that calibar. You have to remember thought it was a remake of a cinematic and hence did not feature anything other than the 3d models and animations running. There was no extra code in that video to bog down processing power. That' s why these videos for all consoles are very untrustworthy until you actually see someone pick up the controller and play it.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I doubt it was RT, sure they might get the graphic to work on the PS2, and they might not.

No where have i said the PS3 will be less powerfull than the Xbox 360, it might be more powerfull, but i believe it will be just about equal, and given the XNA to develop xbox games with, the Xbox will be in the developers favor, but whether the gamers buy it is a different matter, old habits die hard, so hard many even refuse to take note of MS.

Sony is in for a rough battle, the PS3 will cost them a fortune.

and probably squaresoft knows that it should leave room to Ai and other stuff, may be that video just tested the gpu...

3dmark2005 can benchmark your pc , it uses real time stuff (fabulous graphics) but it doesn' t take into consideration the cpu (of course it uses it but just the minimum needed) and you can see what your pc more or less is capable of..

so i guess it would be the same thing with squaresoft and they already proved it with ps2 , they showed that FF7 teaser while keeping in mind that here is still room for other stuff to put otherwise they' ll be stupid and embrassed later on which i doubt of

ORIGINAL: Vx Chemical

I doubt it was RT, sure they might get the graphic to work on the PS2, and they might not.

No where have i said the PS3 will be less powerfull than the Xbox 360, it might be more powerfull, but i believe it will be just about equal, and given the XNA to develop xbox games with, the Xbox will be in the developers favor, but whether the gamers buy it is a different matter, old habits die hard, so hard many even refuse to take note of MS.

Sony is in for a rough battle, the PS3 will cost them a fortune.

I' ve seen in many places that the PS3 could be less powerful than the 360. Personally I' m at the point were The specs are damn close and it comes down to the developers. After watching those Lost Oddyssey and the Blue Dragon videos I just posted I can definately say the 360 is right there with the PS3.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I know it' s about preference which console you prefer.
But if you have to rate the value of a console, then you cannot rate it depending on a single persons views. You have to take the average view and see what the markets desires the most. Therefore I can easily say that PS2 is far more appreciated and valuable than the Xbox.
And I know that you usually don' t buy all the Must-have titles. But the more Must-have titles to choose from (PS2), the bigger are the chances of getting a game you really appreciate. And the Xbox has got less exclusive Must-have titles than the limit of how many games the average person buys (based on average consumer opinion).
But of course now with the prices so low, if you are a fan of several of the exclusive franchises on the Xbox, then it is a good choice of console. But to the average person the PS2 still has to be considered more valuable.

As ff8 ride the succes of ff7 so was ps2...of psx.
Basically people know,with ps2 i can chip it as with psx and play my old games too,and its a safe card they are the leader right now and was at the moment then ofc.

And about sales and stuff...

FF serie has sold 60 million copies,pokemon 140 millions... enough said.
Sure number is number,and you should listen to them,but the reason why ps2 was so succesful and sold so much is because of the lack of fight of nintendo,and not having a competion...the psx had like 100000 games and you could chip them etc and they was cheap and to me better then n64 games.
Same with the ps2+you got a dvd and dvd was new at the mom which GC did not include.
I would say that 80-90% of the market already had a ps2 when xbox came.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

I don' t think anyone can judge PS3' s power based on specs that can be changed any day now.

I think Sony has an eye on 360 right now and they know how many users hate the noise ,heat issues and big size with AC powerbrick.
Plus how uninspired most launch titles feel to many reviewers.

If they can learn from it they can win big time - but Sony proved that they mostly don' t give a F**K - I wonder if they will underestimate 360 this time.They' ve already underestimated Xbox and DS - they cannot afford doing so with 360 and Revolution.

It just proves what a great thing competition is.

I think they will underestimate it, or they will bash it with useless press like the one where they call Xbox 360 fake HD.

Both companies go about their strategies in different ways. To put it bluntly:

Sony tries to solve its problems through bullshit and slander.
Microsoft tries to solve its problems by throwing money around.

Which strategy is better? That' s for you to decide, but don' t expect either of them to change their ways because their current strategies have gotten them to where they are now.

I think Sony has an eye on 360 right now and they know how many users hate the noise ,heat issues and big size with AC powerbrick.

Don' t expect the PS3 to be any better than the X360 in this area. If anything it might be worse. It' s gotten to the point where it' s simply too difficult to provide a completely silent cooling solution for technology that advanced and in a package that small. The technology has advanced faster than cooling methods can handle and hence this is why we have giant power bricks, noisier machines and a lot of heat. As later revisions of the consoles appear some of these issues will be solved or minimised but that probably won' t happen for a year or so.

...... i thought Sony were just pointing out that PS3 will be ' more' High Definition than 360, in the fact that PS3 outputs in the superior 1080 progressive format, and that 360 cannot play High Definition DVD' s....

...the 1080 format is said to be rare, but on first glance, you WOULD expect 360 to be able to play HD movies in its drive ....... although i read somewhere that MS plan to sell you HD movies as downloads via xbox live....

... how long would it take to download a full length HD version of King Kong, for example?.... would the overall quality be the same as me buying a HD DVD from the high street? and how much space would say, 10 full length HD movies take up on the 360 hard drive?....

...Sony have unquestionably underestimated Xbox Live... when will they admit it? ...or do you think that Sony are just simply incapable of creating a service anywhere near as comprehensive as Microsoft?...

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If they made the fans bigger, they could get more cooling per dB as it were. But that would mean a bigger console, and no Sony consumer wants a huge beastly thing! Its easy with PCs cos you just stick a great big 120mm heat sink fan on the cpu etc. But without that luxury, you have to delve into power management issues on individual chips.

I dont know how they pulled off the slimline (or PSP for that matter!) but that was amazing!

how long would it take to download a full length HD version of King Kong, for example?

Judging by HD movies that are available today, King Kong wouldn' t even come close to fitting on the Xbox360' s tiny hard drive, even if you never installed any backwards compatibility modes, audio files, game saves or anyting else.

Yeah,even thoguh you dont have a hdd,a blu-ray might work like one....putting many movies into one cd.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

After PSX, PS2 and PSP (some people seem to forget the PSP) I' m quite confident that Sony will deliver a machine worthy the PlayStation Brand. A brand that so far has stood for great games and multimedia. No matter how much they lie, some of what they tell is truth, enough to make a good console. Of course, I want to see it and read the reviews before I actually buy it. Lets keep our hopes high
- -
Is there a demand for HD movies on the market today? I mean, I still think regular DVDs look great. On a TV smaller than 42" it can' t make much of a difference can it?
I' ve never seen a HD-movie so I really don' t know how it looks but it seems to require lots of harddrive space and technology so complicated that I think regular DVDs are fine.

for me PSP is so far a disapointement , most of its releases are ports and few games are original and not a single one is a killer ap.... and why he hell ubisoft released that remake of prince of persia 2, are they kidding me?? most of people think hat its the worst in the series, why did they pick up the second in particular ?? speacialy after the release of the third ?? sometimes i don' t understand anything of how these companies think....

long life to PS3

I still think regular DVDs look great.

They look fine. And many many people share your view. And that is why Blu-Ray won' t be the massive huge selling point for the PS3 like Sony thinks it will be.

I must say that I' ve watched the same movie on both standard DVD and on HD-DVD, and the difference is VERY noticeable. This is assuming, of course, that you have an HD display. Of course, anyone who has a high def tv and some hd programming coming into their home can attest to this. HD ROCKS HARD!

Most people don' t realize what their missing until they actually get some quality time with an HD signal in their home, and then have to watch standad def. If you don' t currently have access to HD then, yeah, regular DVDs look fine. I' ve been spoiled, and I want my HD-DVDs NOW!!

ANd for us people who has no tv channel broadcasting in hd,shall we pay 1600 dollar just to be able to have hd when we play xbox360 and a game like pdz?
...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

That' s up to you, but I' m sure the value will increase when HD-DVDs come to market.

So QuezcatoL, do they have ANY high def stuff over there in Sweden? Like on satellite or Cable?

Ill be getting a HD tv as soon as possible, seeing the difference on the games on Xbox 360 is enough to warrant a purchase, and channels here in denmark will begin sending the signal in May.

I hope if at one point MS decides to put a drive in the xbox 360, that they give some option for the people who already bought one.

ORIGINAL: Vx Chemical

I hope if at one point MS decides to put a drive in the xbox 360, that they give some option for the people who already bought one.

I agree. I would hate to be one of the first to buy one, only to be left out in the cold. I don' t see how it would work, though. Maybe ship it in to the Microsoft repair facility and get a refurbished model with HD-DVD capabilities?

Same for us chemical,but only one of the cable sport channels :O
Hopefully the price is reasonble in some months...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.