Arrrgh, Gotham 3 at 30fps.

Awwww, bummer. I thought Bizarre Creations would at least, out of goodwill, make their first Xbox 360 game run at 60fps. So that i could at least enjoy THAT, while they beefed up the graphics in preparation for their ' more photorealistic than reality' PGR4 that runs at 30 fps.

But i guess they just couldn' t help themselves. Well it isn' t surprising. I mean Metropolis Street Racer for the DreamCast was 30fps anyway. PG2 was 30fps too. I guess it' s part of their philosophy. I' m sure Microsoft just forced them to make PGR1 60fps.

I' m still keeping my eye on PGR3 though. To see if the motion blur really does make a difference.

And my hopes are up for Test Drive Unlimited too.

Curious though, how could those HD videos of PGR3 be running at 60fps then? I guess now they can' t be used as an accurate gauge of a game' s real framerate. They were probably just 60fps because they were encoded with fields.

I' m pretty sure that Gotham 1 was 30fps. I have it, or at least I think I do. I' ll have to check as I' m not 100% sure. All I know is that DoA4 is the only Xbox360 game that runs at 60fps. Itagaki took some of the crack cocaine he smokes from his bloodstream and injected it into the game to make it run faster. :)

I think Call of Duty 2 is also 60fps! that' s one of the recent facts that got me excited about the 360. Teamxbox' preview said that not only do the graphics look noticeably better than the pc version, but it runs at 60fps too. Which is really a big thing because i think the last console first-person-shooter that was 60fps was the first Medal of Honor on the PS2.

Hmmm, or perhaps this is all some marketing ploy? that maybe, MS is gonna pull a shocker on the whole industry right before release when they say, " We' re just kidiiiing!! all the launch games are 60fps!!" hehe. (okay time for me to wake up from this dream). :P

Maybe Itagaki doesn' t allow his programmers to eat until the game meets his standards for the day. Hehe. I hope they don' t silently conspire to kill him in his sleep. :P

Who said the game runs at 30 fps?

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Who said the game runs at 30 fps?

The master of framerate himself. The framerate guru. The framerate shaman. The framerate extraordinaire affecionado critic, Adam Doree. It' s on the latest preview of Gotham 3 on this site. XO3 impressions.

Uhh.. who really cares?

60fps, 30fps. As long as its fun it' s fine by me. It' s not like it' ll be a slideshow when you play it.

Did he not mean it was 30 fps when he tried it?
They will probably higher it when they optimize the game.
I mean gears of war running at 30 fps now,but they know that they can higher it later in devl.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

it' s not like it' s Wipeout or f zero x, i use fraps to see the framerates in some of my pc games, 30fps is enough for adventure games , and even fps (single player), for cars well i don' t think it would be a problem as well don' t be greedy graphics are awesome and i think we can easily understand developers for this first round

All that power available to them and Bizarre Creations is only able to muster 30 frames per second... Watch Namco show them how to do it when they have Ridge Racer 6 running past a steady 60 frames per second. They' ll probably supercharge that sucker with a steady 90 frames per second :p

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

having more then 60 fps doesnt help if your tv doesnt support more then 60 hz :P
and most european tv' s are pal at 50 hz.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Nevermind that. I just heard from an unreliable source that Ridge Racer 6 is gonna be running at 180 frames per second! Awesome!

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

the eye cannot detect the difference when it' s above 60FPS, so make it more but that will reduce the quality of the game

Did he not mean it was 30 fps when he tried it?

Well the XO3 impression was posted just last week. And accdg. to it, with just about a month left before launch, that' s about it. I don' t think that a month' s time is enough if you' re trying to suddenly make a 30fps game 60fps.


Interesting note: if the screenshots of Test Drive Unlimited are any indication of what the final game will look like, then i think that somehow (even though PGR3 has drastically more detail because of buildings, crowds, etc.) TDU seems to be more photoreal than PGR3. But then of course, my eternal question again would be, would that be running at 30 or 60? hehe.

But thus far, i think Ridge Racer 6 is still behind in terms of graphics. They will have to beef up the graphics if they want to compete with PGR3 and TDU. As far as i' m concerned, Ridge Racer 6' s graphics as of now isn' t that much of a leap from current gen games like Burnout Revenge.

Well... its not like there is just a choice of 30 or 60 fps,they can fix it to 40 fps or little more...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

45. Final demand. Non-negotiable. :P

TV' s in homes today use the standard 60Hz (Hertz) refresh rate. This equates to 60/2 which equals 30 Frames Per Second

Got this from an fps site. This doesn' t make sense to me though, cause if this is the case anything over 30 fps is a waste on a regular tV, and i can definetly tell the dif when seeing 60 fps vs. 30fps.

Pretty neat article, but long, all about how many fps the human eye can detect.

FPS and the human eye

Well I know a TV displays at 30fps. But because a TV projects fields, what you see in each frame is 2 fields (the previous frame, as well as the next frame), and the overall effect on our eyes is that of 60fps.

It doesnt matter what they say.
Ghost recon is for ex 30 fps,and you can feel it.
I can tell the diffrence between 30 and 60 fps anytime.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

All I know is that the video for PGR3 looked SWEET! I' m positive that Bizarre knows what they' re doing and will turn out an excellent game. As you guys have stated, most current gen games run at 30fps, and there are MANY excellent offerings. While it is true that we hope that the advanced technologies of the next gen will result in " bigger, stronger, and faster" games, I think the effort of the developers should be focused on what they feel is important to the gameplay, as opposed to just doing things because they can.

The confusing term is " frames" when talking about TVs. The point is that there are 60 different moments in time on a standard TV. You can have 60 different pages of text per second on a standard TV and have them all show up and readable (if you stepped through them one at a time).

Ridge Racer 6 is running at 180fps just out of spite for Gotham 3 or 4 or whatever it' s called. Sure, you can' t see 180fps unless you have a monitor that runs at 180Hz, but Namco put them in there just because. The human eye can see over 60Hz (60 screen updates per second). Ever notice how much smoother your CRT monitor looks when set at 80Hz or higher? Get used to that and put it back on 60Hz. Flicker hell!

I keep watching the HD video of Gotham 3 over and over. I' ve come to one realization. Because of the graphics and the motion blur, this isn' t any different anymore, from watching a movie, and being able to control the cars in it too. I guess that' s not a bad thing. I really still have to see it in action, before i can determine whether motion-blurred 30fps is as soothing as non-blurred 60fps.

One thing' s for sure though, at 30fps this game won' t seem like Live TV broadcast anymore.


Interesting question: How would you all feel if DOA4, VF5, or possibly a Tekken 6, was decidedly made to run at 30fps in order to accomodate more jaw dropping backgrounds? And why has there never been a 30fps fighting game since the Toshinden series?

I agree that 60fps feels broadcasty, like TV news. For real video I hate 60fps and prefer 24p (progressive scan). But for games 60fps is nice. I haven' t seen any Gotham pics with motion blur. Was the supposed HD video you watched shot with a camcorder pointing at a screen or was it direct feed? If it was a camcorder, then any blurring you see is most likely artificial as a result of the camera' s CCDs.

Edit: Do you remember how much Toshinden sucked? And then when Virtua Fighter 2 came out and everyone was amazed at how that looked? I think everyone likes that 60fps look. VF1 was 60fps as well.

60 fps doesnt just make it look better,it help out the smoother gameplay,you can feel the small lagg everywhere in ghost recon,with the 30 fps.
Its annoying.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

You all have to understand that each car is 80,000 to 105,000 approx polygons and that is for the cars alone than you have to had all other polygons like buildings and ppl on the side of the racing track and the track together. A bridge in PGR3 has more polygons than a full city in PGR2 and that is alot of friggen polygons, yeah the xbox360 has alot of power to use but if you crowd that with heaps of data then the system is going to run slower and slower. If we are lucky enough than Bizzarr Creations could get the FPS up to a stable 40frames and thats is enough to play a game and enjoy it.

Hope this has cleared some light on some ppl.

Note:This is my first post on this Forum and im glad to be here.

AMD64 3500+ Venice,Abit Fatal1ty An8,Cosair Xpert 1GB Ram with progrmable LED's,Sapphire X850XTPE.

PGR3 is currently 30fps and is not likely to reach 60fps for release if you ask me.
http://games.kikizo.com/news/200510/053.asp

PGR1 was 60fps by the way.
PGR2 was 30.

If you can' t tell the difference between PGR1 and PGR2 then there' s little point in worrying about fps in the first place.

But it might reach 40?
I mean have they optimize the code yet?
I would probably think they did that now...

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Was the supposed HD video you watched shot with a camcorder pointing at a screen or was it direct feed?

I think it was direct feed. There are loads of Gotham 3 screenshots with motion blur. Like this on for example, look at the left edge: https://www.kikizo.com/viewer/imageview_games.asp?http://games.kikizo.com/media/projectgothamracing3_oct05/02.jpg

hehe. I can' t get this joke out of my head, about what i keep hoping the developers at bizarre are talking about right at this moment:

" Okay is everything in order? a.i. final? physics bugs all fixed?... By the way how' s are marketing campaign, are we into phase 3 yet? ok?... yes or no? ok good. Now... activate X360 core' s 2 and 3, let' s see what this baby looks like at full power!"

...Its not just active core 2 and 3.
If it was that easy,cell would be kick ass 2k,listen to gabe the creator of half life...how he is angry on MS,probably bizzare too,but seeing how ms publish their game they cant give out critism,i told everyone a HDD should have been used in every package,and they said no dev really cared,wtf?!

" I spoke to some people at Microsoft, and as I said, I can' t point to a single feature in Vista that I care about that solves problems for us. At all. And I had the same conversation with the Xbox 360 guys. It' s like Xbox 360 doesn' t make my life any better, and in fact, it makes it a lot worse, as you' re telling me I can' t count on having a hard drive," said Newell.

He trash multicore processorer for being to hard to work with,not just ps3,but xbox360 too.
So its not so easy uploading each core as some think.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.