I agree with Game Junkie. I think the XBox 360 has a much greater potencial as the PS 3. This time, Sony loses to 100%.

Game junkie is right quezacotl.You bought way too much of that crap.

Cell is a great cpu? ok but so was EMOTION ENGINE back in the days - everything said about Cell was said about EE.

Cell is made with IBM the biggest supporter of Apple CPU' s B U T as of 2006/2007 Apple is going INTEL , Because IBM is not that efficient anymore and you may not know that but they were said to build their computers with cell at some point.

We don' t know which one is more powerfull but we know how much Sony lies.
We do know (those of us who know a bit about Tech stuff) how advanced X360 hardware is comparing to everything on market today yet we don' t see it in PS3(256 main RAM memory means it' s just that - 256, and X360 has 512 that can be used as needed for both CPU AND GPU).

We know that Ati' s GPU for X360 is a next big thing in GPU' s to come (Unified Shader pipeline) plus that CPU is optimised for gaming where as CELL is said to be a great CPU for a Computer.

Plus that CPU is made to work very effective with that GPU and using as much RAM as nedeed at the moment.

Cell is SAID TO BE powerfull but Graphics are heavily GPU dependent.

I really don' t think MGS4 looks better than Gears of War - it' s a different design , but all in all I think GOW is more Technically advanced (and playable) even though I like MGS style graphics better.

Cell is more powerfull then power pc engine technology that will be used by NR and xbox360,that is a fact.
However if most of the companies really manage to draw out the power of it is another question,big companies like square-enix and konami will manage it.
But other companies? we will see...
Apple' s mr jobs said he prefered power pc engine over Cell yes,and denied its techonology when Sony asked him,saying:" I belive power pc engine will be better then cell" howerver then again he already had plans on using it over Cell so ofc he could not change his mind,that would make bad Pr for his company ofc.
You talk about gears of war you saw what Ps3 could do in real time,it looked as good as gears of war, and i have no doubt it will have problem playing Gears of war either.
I mean the best good looking rpg this gen is probably ps2' FFX if you ask me,and why is that? it depend on the company making the game right?
Epic games is famous for delivering hi tech graphic,in their budget they are depended on making graphic engines to sell,so ofc they gonna make games that blow people away.
However thinking just xbox360 can deliver that graphic is very wrong.
Remember that the game is said to be running on one core yes,but it also runs at 30 fps and drops below,so apperently the talk about one core manage Gears of war is very wrong statement,it will need 3 to make it run smooth,and themself said that they will just add more details so it doesnt run at 60 fps but look as good as possible.
So apperently they find their limits with unreal engine 3.0 ... however xbox360 seems to not have a problem running gears of war.

If you ask me though i dont know what to say,i like snake model very much,probably the best look character i ever seen so far.
Gonna be intresting in a year or so,when we can see how other things gonna look.
Remember at this early state they hasn' t got much to show yet.
I mean remember when you first saw unreal engine 3.0?
You wonder how games would actually look like with it.
And now you got your answere with gears of war.
And also remember,talking about psyhics we hasn' t seen much breaking realistic of gears of war yet,and still the games runs at 20-30 fps...
But ofc its coming 2006 so it will be implanted,i guess.

Lol strange...i actually defend sony and ps3...
Well... probably because i like square-enix and konami.
And ff7 tech demo was probably the best looking rpg ever seen,or no wait it was.
>_<

Quez... that post had so much crap I can' t get the stench out of my nose.

You can' t say the Cell is more powerful than the 3 core PowerPC processor. It all depends on what it' s calculating. Sure the cell has double the floating point calculations(which games hardly use) but the Xbox CPU has three times the power in general purpose calculations(which games are dependant on). Also, nobody knows how to use a three core processor yet. They also have no idea how to use the mutliple threads laced into the cores. The 360' s CPU could infact be more powerful than the Cell when fully utilized. The only real advantage the Cell has is physics and that' s because the Cell processor has the same architecture as a PPU.

the Gears of War statement was crap too. The reason it' s running at 30fps and dips down every now and then is simple because the game isn' t even half done! They don' t tweak that stuff until about 85% of the game is complete. that' s when they go and clean up the code to make everything run silky smooth. Saying it' s because the game needs three cores is BS. The game is running fine on just one core. Epic isn' t even sure what to do with the extra cores yet. apparently they are making some big steps though because Cliff B. (head designer) said some crazy stuff was going to be shown off at X05. He can' t believe how great the 360 is even at this early stage. He definately didn' t think so highly of the PS3. I also just read in my Game Informer that several other developers are starting to like the 360 quite a bit more than the PS3. John Carmack said the 360 was much nicer than the PS3. Itagaki even went as far as saying that the 360 is the best console ever. Lately there have also been rumors that the PS3 is starting to loose support because developers are not liking the system. One Japanese developer even said that the PS3 is loosing support faster than the GC did (scary thought).

Btw, the Final Fantasy Tech Demo was nothing more than a tech demo. It showed of some graphics and that was it. It' s not even a game.People got way to excited over it.

On a side note- Gangsta, Apple didn' t break from IBM because they didn' t like their technology. It was to get their OS running on Intel processors which opens up the floodgates for them to have their OS running on all brands of computers, not just apples. IBM' s chips are actually quite incredible. I' d say they are the next best thing to AMD. Also, Apple is full of dumbasses which is anohter reason the dropped IBM.

Well...Carmack just said that it was easier to work with,but most developer will finish the work with cell,however its just gonna be hard work,but he still think they will manage it,but the reason why he said pain in the ass,is because at his company they are like 20 people,and most work is doing by carmack.
And when he can transmute a lot of information(data) right from his pc to xbox360 seemless he gonna appreciete that more,and also remember that quake 4 is coming to xbox360,and also that Itagaki is planing 5 games,none should have expected a diffrent answere,its like when kojima said that cell is the way to win console war is that true? if you ask a sony fan yes,if you ask a xbox fan if itagaki statement was true then you hear yes,xbox360 is the best console etc and ps3 is so damn hard to develop too and is so damn complicated while square-enix and konami doesnt say so...you get the pic rampage?

And about that with gears of war yes you are right you optimize a code when the game is almost done,thats why they often lagg etc before.
But they said they was gonna go from 20-30 fps to double probably when they take us of xbox360 power,i was guessing that mean adding one more core or two,but i might be wrong, one might be enough,but that would not make any sense.
And also they said they wasn' t aiming for 30 or 60 fps,they aiming for something just under 60 fps,they rather implant some more details to the game then getting it to 60 fps.
Well that is not so horrible,people here like me who loved ghost recon knows it was running 30 fps,you doesnt need 60 fps for a game like gears of war or ghost recon,but i would say 45-50 would be a good idea...
And about what cliff says,he is a lead designer,i think he made maps for former unreal games,but he isn' t so experience with technology as himself admitted:" dont ask me about those tech things,im more the kind of guy saying add a chainsaw to that weapon" ,so i cant blindly listen to him.

But back to carmack,a msn friend " emil" said carmack said cell is better to work with programs like excell then to us in graphics...if thats true or not i dont know.

But anyway Rampage i still think cell is more powerfull,and i dont know when its power will be shown as the later years of ps3 or the earlier,we will see.
And also about that tech demo of ff7,yes it was a tech demo,and if you seen the tech demo for ps2 with ff8 you had known that square also delivered the same graphic but even better.
They doesnt show something they cant show in a game,they show things that could be running when you play the game.
FF8 tech demo on ps2 looked exact like FFX on ps2 did,and still i heard people saying no way will it look like that.
But you and me know that ffx look fukking amazing.
And in that tech demo you only saw 2 people dancing in a room,in ffx they even had huge enviorment and stuff around the characters,so we could even expecting more.

But also keep in mind that the tech demo shown to xbox360 at e3 was awesome too.
It had better graphic on the enviroment/giant house or wtf it was,but very low on characters,but that is something that doesnt mean xbox360 can show as good characters,probably they did not spend enough time with it.

One last thing,why many developers goes to xbox360 now is because they want to try out next.gen and with its multi thread cores,and also because they want to sell games ofc.
And first next gen console is a great way to have the best looking or coolest game out in the market to brag with.
Remember that many left nintendo for sony because they wanted try something new,and it costed lesser to make games for them.
This is probably the same way with xbox now,ms is giving them great price for making games to their systems etc,as long as they are 2nd on the market.
And yes i do belive many will go leave xbox360 as soon as ps3 is out.

I dont know how it looks like for you rampage in usa,but here in europe many is gonna wait for ps3...

And btw people,im going xbox360+ps3+nr

Rampage99
Apple actually droped IBM because of heat emission - Back in the days of first MAC' s IBM had a very efficient CPU' s with much lower heat emission than Intel' s doings.Now it' s quite the opposite.
Apple is all about comfort , silence (silent fans systems) and stuff - They can' t produce G5 laptops cause of heat issue.

I wonder what did Apple do so wrong that PC' s made so good.Or what they did so wrong that MS did so good - from software perspective?

Quezacotl : FFX never was THAT good looking in my opinion, maybe in FMV.

Listen to Rampage about the CELL (plus POWER PC is IBM' s architecture and Apple is going for Intel this time not PowerPC)

Apple' s mr jobs said he prefered power pc engine over Cell yes,and denied its techonology when Sony asked him,saying:" I belive power pc engine will be better then cell" howerver then again he already had plans on using it over Cell so ofc he could not change his mind,that would make bad Pr for his company ofc.

I don' t think you know who S. Jobs is man.He' s no PR - he created Apple with S. Wozniak - just the two of them.

Cell is said to be a beast yet noone really wants it anywhere except PS3.

Blu-Ray was so awesome just a week ago and now it' s codename is BS (That' s :BULLSHIT -like a BIG FUCKIN LIE)

Why people feel afraid of cell?
Because as some said,it would be a most but better suited to use in some years to come,not in 2006.
Remember that gabe himself was against making games for the upcoming Xbox 360 / PlayStation 3 consoles. The reason? Multicore processors,he feel sorry for all developeres who has to struggle with this,and ofc ps3 will use 7 cores,that will be the hardest.
But that doesnt mean he likes xbox360' s 3 cores.
And no gangsta i have no idea who steven jobs is the co founder of apple... sigh¨

And about FFX,Show me a better looking rpg to any of the console' s k?
It looked amazing just admit it

:)


No one said that people are affraid of Cell. (Well I' m not I can take him on :) )

FFX sucked badly for me - the characters models where epileptic (shaking in Realtime cutscenes) and the game was just dumb - and I love FF6,7 and 8 - I also had lots of fun with FF9 but it was kind of dissapointing.

Better looking game? overall that would be crappy Jade Empire or Beaten Kaitos (except the fighting scenes).But I admit FFX was looking very good at the time.

The fights in FFX where really spectacular but other than that it was a huge dissapointment for me.I' ve heard that FFX-2 is cool and I' m going to play it :)

I agree FF8 and FF10 that was being made by Kitase was horrible,but as a rpg game they was awesome.
For me the FF serie was like this FF7>FF9>FF6>FF8>FF10>FF5>FF4
And yes the characters was shaking abit,but still it did not make me dislike the graphic abit.
Square-enix kick ass,and the graphic so far seen on FF12 is just amazing.
Oh btw stick away from FFX-2 its a girl game,and its embarssing,i miss Sakaguchi but he will be making 2 rpg for xbox360 so nvm im grabbing them ofc.

no no no FF8 rox :)
for me it' s FF6=FF7=FF8>>FF9>>FFX

Chrono cross was cool as well

I really liked FF8 , I was dissapointed with ff9 story - not up to the FF standards(same deal with X) :)

I really wanna play FFX-2 I don' t care if people say it' s girlie - it looked cool when I was playing - but YEAH that INTRO sSs uUu xXx :)

Actually Sakaguchi as interviewed here at kikizo did ff6,and chrono trigger,but he let kitase do ff8 who did also ff10.
FF8 was great,but to much " hi tech" thats why sakaguchi decied to get back to the roots,and ff9 was as far as possible as ff8 and thats why i loved it.
But its good that you disliked ffx >_< it was a great rpg,but not a great FF game.
Gahh it feel so mainstream thumbs down for ff10 expect about the graphic parts and the sound.

i know that' s not the topic

for my part i loved FFX i just dont understand why people say it' s a disapointment, those are usualy the same people who say FF8 is disapointing , for me

FF6, FF7, FF8 are in the same level say i give them 98 %

FF10 96%

FF9 94%

FFX-2 90%

Jade empire Nyahahahaha 85%

Final Fantasy 10 looks awesome specialy at the time

Basically the first games was a mix of medieval time+1600 centuary something.
I dont know what to say about ff6,machines+trains in a middle age time.
FF7 was a bit to try to mix todays technology,with guns+helicopters etc,and tv etc and more.
But ff8 was just crazy and to hi tech,also the story and event went down hill at cd 3-cd4 and i think ff8+ ff10 was to mainstream,and i disliked the characters,even thoguh i really liked the game.

Jade empire 85%?

WOoooooOOOooooOOW

MAN this game doesn' t deserve 60%

The graphics were very good but that' s it.

Interesting facts,
1) The cell does have some positive...and negative buzz going for it, alot of western press and the press for your respective country take sony' s words at face value, in japan it' s pretty common to promise the moon when you' re pitching a product, but when all is said and done, the cell(like the ibm set in xbox360) is just a cpu, used to tie everything together, and has very little to do with the way the game is played or how the game looks.
2)The ibm set was customized for microsoft by ibm, it' s not the same chip used in apple computers at all, it' s not only multi threaded but is able to access a great deal more memory and bandwidth then any other cpu on the market, and that also includes the cell.
Microsoft was also approched by toshiba about the cell, and they weighed the pro' s and cons, they made the right choice and designed a chip that is quite a bit more flexable and scalable then the cell.
3)MGS4 is, and was not EVER running on finalized ps3 hardware, the ps3 is in PRE vaporware status, meaning there are several development kits (No rsx, 1 cell running at 1.2 and no real operating system,one sitting a few blocks from me in atari games bothell WA) It was indeed prerecorded from previously produces engine footage, the hardware at TGS was only a pentium 4.
4)Apple computers did not switch to intel because they wanted to run on any given dell, you still have to have apple produced hardware to run the next os(osx86) intel is producing cpus that are not compatable with currant standards, so you will not be able to run apple programs on your system, you must have an apple intel machine only.
5)The word of a development studio shouldnt be trusted, no company in their right mind is going to badmouth any chipset.
Konami and square/enix are more interested in making money above anything else, if the xbox were as popular in japan as the ps, you would hear those companies ramble about the merits of xbox.
Sony does only one thing right, and that' s keeping the japanese firms happy, you can be sure there are lots of coders at both square and konami who are flat out tired of the lousy hardware sony often comes up with, and would rather be developing for the gamecube/xbox/pc.
But the image is what' s important to japanese companies most of all, and as long as sony pays the bills over there, the playstation will be supported.
Tech superiority means nothing to these companies.
And most importantly, the japanese know very little about bleeding edge coding, the most popular games in japan are far from hardware intensive,
And what john carmack says goes.
You can expect to see the most graphicly intense games come from the US..And seeing as this is xbox360 country...the ps3 will have an uphill battle.

I' m affraid you' re wrong with that CPU thing or maybe you didn' t state it clear enough :)

Cpu is responsible for physics and everything that happens in game so it has a huge impact on gameplay and graphics (it' s not only how sharp or shiny it is but also how it interacts)

Apple is going for intel and they are making MacOS for it so it could be capable of operating both Windows and MacOS systems.

MacOS won' t be compatible with any PC but it is being made with intel in mind (next Gen Centrino tech.) and the only way to stop you from installing MacOS on your PC is a check for a dedicated chip from intel - this however will fall to skills of pro hackers sooner or later.

I don' t think I can believe that most Japanese gamers don' t know anything about games and buy them with poor graphics because of lack of knowledge

I think US and European gamers actually are the ones easily deceived by cool graphics instead of awesome gameplay.

If they don' t care about power though , why does Sony (and they do this hype for Japan as well) hype their specs so much? (each generation - PS2 and PSX were just like PS3 when it comes to " specs hype" )

It' s alright, I know this subject is new to alot of people, so i' ll do my best to help you understand.
In reguards to both the cell and and the xbox360, both have very little to do with the way the game is played, as in, both cpu sets are very similar.
Sure, if one set was vastly superior to the other, you might expect to see some serious gains, but both are on the same level, with the cell on the lower end(no branch prediction, no cache and half the ram accessable) All modern cpu (sets) are dedicated to general computations, almost all geometry is done on gpu.
And seeing as most games on both systems are geomery based, the cpu has very little to do with with the system.

Apple is doing no such thing, only in the world of the internet could one make such a ridiculous statement, even the average slashdot reader knows why apple made the switch, but i guess you don' t read slashdot.

You do bring up something obvious, But then again, pearpc is able to run powerpc based osx right now on most modern ibm compat hardware, so sure.

No, you misunderstand....
If you head over to your local gamestop, and listen in to the average geek talking to his friends about games, you' re more likely to hear buzz words from american(and euro) gamers, like pixel shader or particle system, if you go to japan, you just don' t hear that kind of talk from japanese gamers.
They simply don' t care as much, as in, these things don' t matter as long as the game is popular.
Also, 70% of arb graphic libraries are' nt written in japanese, beause most japanese production firms don' t produce games written in CG or Rendermonkey, or gpu intensive games.
The japanese don' t have the experiance with such suites because most japanese don' t even own a modern pc, and those who do don' t do it for games.(as in all of life, there are always exceptions)

Well, maybe, or maybe not, i do know that both markets are exposed to more games then the japanese, as in, you won' t find a huge pc gaming section in japan, like i said above.
Gameplay is relative, and alot of what' s popular over there is also popular here too.

Sony does' nt want to be left behind, it' s would be foolish for sony to release an inferior system to the market, even if the japanses don' t really care about specs(if you listen to ken, he never goes into WHY the cell is better, never goes into specifics about the hardware) they might start to if the other guy can makes game concepts sony' s machine can' t, or more importantly...They might start to care if PC/mac componants become affordable.

So hype it is, even if they don' t blurt some specs, they do often blurt zealot horseshit like" Gives you freedom of expression"