PS3 GPU less powerful then the Xbox 360?

Hello everyone i found this article saying that the XBox 360 GPU is slightly faster then the PS3 GPU. ALso i was thinking that if ATI is making the GPU for the Revolution if they use the same one then the Rev will also be more powerful wouldn' t that be a trip? The Sony PS3 claiming to be the fastest and being last haha. Also since it wil most like be the most expensive and i just read another article saying that the games on the PS3 wil be upwards of $70-80 this could be a tough sell for sony

I am not trying to be a fanboy or bash sony i just thought this article was interesting and funny.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9126/PlayStation-3-GPU-Less-Powerful-than-GeForce-7800/

hehe also notice that the article is coming from some place called " TEAM XBOX" gee i wonder why they favored the xbox 360.

I' m gonna wait on Game Developers to confirm from actual hands on experience what they believe is the most powerful of the GPUs ;)

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I don' t know all the numbers, Rampage99 is your man for that, but I do know that GPU' s arent' the whole story. It has to work in combination with the main motherboard, as well as have system RAM toback it all up. On benchmarking tests PS3 is claiming 1.8 Tflops while the 360 is claiming 1.15 Tflops. I personally don' t believe either system is going to be hitting the 1.0 Tflop range when it hits the market, but that' s just me being a little cynical, and in my opinion, a little realisitic.

From what I' ve heard the 360 GPU is indeed more powerful than the RSX that' s in the PS3. I really won' t go through the whole number crunch thing because I don' t even know the entire extent of it and really no one does entirely. Over all though the 360 GPU is a better performer overall. As I' ve stated before, the integrated ram that is built directly on to the GPU is what gives it the serious edge. It can do numerous graphical enhancements without any strain on overall system performance. It can do all sorts of nifty things with that ram including full screen 4x anti-aliasing, pixel shading, poly shading, and so on without ever bogging down any other system resources. That means everything will have more realistic shadows and will be much smoother all around. Those types of things often strain a system so with that completely freed up the GPU has a lot more resources to work with on making everything else better. That' s what I' ve come to understand.

The RSX is still a beast though as is the PS3 as a whole. It does technically have the ability to number crunch almost 2 teraflops of floating point calculations while the 360 only pushes out a little over one teraflop. That really doesn' t matter though because most games hardly use floating point calculations. Games rely on general purpose calculations which happens to be the 360' s strong point. The Cell may be twice as powerful in something that games don' t use but the 360 is three times as powerful as the PS3 in general purpose calculations. As MS said, their console is focused on making high powered games and not winning science awards.

I' m really intregued by the Cell processor and it' s potential to be used in multiple devices that can run in tandum together. It' s been said that sony may even encorperate the chip into TVs and such. That would mean if you hooked up your PS3 to your TV that had it' s own cell processor, both could be used to run the game. 2 cell processors working in unison sounds pretty crazy. At the same time I' m doubtful it will work. Then again, as I said before I don' t know the full extent of what it' s capable of.

I' m actually more excited about the 360 though. It has three cores built into it' s CPU. That basically acts as if the console had three seperate 3Ghz processors. Even better is each has two threads availible. I did a little research on these multiple threads last week and I found out that each core can create it' s own virtual core inside of the core using the second thread. That may sound complicated but to sum it up, the 360 could technically be running as if it had 6 cores or CPUs. Yeah sounds crazy, I know. Bascailly it will be able to have the three actual cores running at 3Ghz a piece while at the same time, using the second thread, simulate three more cores(or CPUs, however you want to look at it). It' s a lot to wrap the mind around but it sounds incredible. Since no one knows really how to use the second threads yet most people will just rely on the regular cores. Still that is three 3Ghz CPUs to work with. One could be completely dedicated to physics, one could be completely dedicated to AI, and one could be left over for all the other stuff to be processed with. If done this way the physics will be utterly insane and fully(and I mean fully) destructible enviroments could be possible. The AI will be insanely smart on both the good guys side and the bad guys side and allows huge amounts of individual thinking among NPCs. That means a huge amount of characters that are all very intellegent and capable of all doing free form AI.

Yeah, this is getting long so I' ll touch on a couple more things. The 360 has an amazing architecture. Every thing is directly linked to eachother since it' s all unified. This allows for very fast transfers of info without any bouncing around. The PS3 on the other hand seems very slapped together. From what I' ve read the information has to be bumped all over the place before it' s process is finally finished. It has to bounce from CPU to RAM to the Graphics card, then it back to the RAM , and... I really don' t know. Apparently it' s just not set up well.

Finally about the Revolution getting the same GPU as the 360... I doubt it. Nintendo wants to be cost friendly, and this GPU isn' t exaclty the cheapest thing around. Infact it' s probably the most exspensive card availible for consoles. The technology in it won' t be avaiblible for computers for a looooooooong time. From what I' ve heard it could be a couple years at minimum. It' s like 2 genreations ahead of what ATi wants to release on the computer market. My guess is that the Revolution will have a great GPU. I really wish Nintendo would spill the beans on their hardware so I could drool, but they don' t seem to want to share. I' m a big fan of ATi(their stuff is much better than nVidia imo) and expect them t have something quite fancy for the guys at Nintendo.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I also read that the 3 cores is better then the one cell core (even though ti has 7 spe or what ever they call it they aren' t liek ful cores or something). Plus i also that Sony has redcued the speed of the cell and it' s spe' s to 2.6 giving MS the edge.

This is good news for developers to create games. ALso seeing how the PS3 games might cost alot more since they are blu-ray and that is stil new compared to DVD' s which are cheap now. But the only draw back for developing for the Xbox 360 is the choice to sell 2 systems one with and one without a hard drive. I heard on G4 that some are not very happy about it because they don' t know if their game should be dependant on the hard drive ot just make the game for a memory card. Seeing how not everyone will have a HDD. MS really dropped the ball on that one why make it standard for the xbox 1 to come with it and then change it for the xbox 2 you know?I am guessing they will just fade out the $300 one after a bit and sell the Xbox 360 with the HDD when the PS3 comes out so everyone has a HDD or something like that.

The only one i am planning to buy at launch is Nintendo' s seeing how it' s suposed to only be like $200. i am trying to win a Xbox 360 on that mountain dew thing hehe. I will wait to see how good Blue Dragon and Lost odysee is to buy a Xbox 360. So far those are the only games i am looking forward too although kameo looks cool. I am a RPG person also a platformer like Ratchet and Clank series. I was upset they messed up Jak and daxter series, the first one was really cool and the second one was really boring.

THAT' S FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!

Now all they need to do is somehow, someway, just maybe make a game that I actually would want to buy.

A sequel to Einheinder. That' s the game you want them to make Joe. Have you ever played the original? I absolutely freakin love that game. They put a sequel on the 360 or PS3 and I will seriously start thinking about buying one.

ORIGINAL: mxpx182

A sequel to Einheinder. That' s the game you want them to make Joe. Have you ever played the original? I absolutely freakin love that game. They put a sequel on the 360 or PS3 and I will seriously start thinking about buying one.

That' s the game where if you die you have to start all over right? That game was hell! I really like the art design and idea behind it though

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

ORIGINAL: Phoenixxx1974

I also read that the 3 cores is better then the one cell core (even though ti has 7 spe or what ever they call it they aren' t liek ful cores or something). Plus i also that Sony has redcued the speed of the cell and it' s spe' s to 2.6 giving MS the edge.

this is true. Sony originally claimed the Cell was clocked at 4Ghz. then it dropped to 3.6... and then 3. I haven' t heard about the 2.6Ghz drop yet but I wouldn' t be surprised. Sony' s been trying to push the Cell processor and the RSX GPU to their brinks and because of it they have yet to actually get the PS3 to work (which is the reason it may get pushed back ' til 2007). I still laugh knowing Sony doesn' t have a console. Seriously... they have a dev kit and that' s it. If you' ve seen the size of the dev kit you can probably realize why they are having a hard time fitting all that huge harware into that tiny package.

The main problem is over heating. The Cell processor and the RSX run hot as a devil' s fart. Sony wants to make the Cell processor all beastly claiming that it runs at 4Ghz but that' s when it' s overclocked with a major cooling system. Same with the RSX. That thing burns out almost every time they try to get the thing running from what I' ve heard. IF you look at the case for the PS3 it actually has virtually no ventilation other than one of the small side. If they keep that design they will never get the console to function. Sony is trying to make a console out of a bunch of different parts slapped together hoping it will work. So far it hasn' t. That' s Sony' s biggest problem when it comes to consoles.

If you look at the interior and exterior build of the 360 you will see the reason it is still fairly big(though not as big as the original) is simply because of the cooling system. the case itself provides a ton ov ventilation. The interior has a combination of bother duel fans and a water cooling system. It takes a lot to keep tis beasts cool. Hopefully Sony will find a decent way to cool their system without beefing up anymore than it already is(that thing is freaking huge!). My guess is the only way they will keep the system from over heating is to turn down the power of the hardware like they have been doing with the Cell this whole time. Doing so will definately kill system perfomance though.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

Brandon Shipe



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2563
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: PlayStation 3 Faster Than 7800, Not Slower

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Misquote leads to elongated articles across the world wide web.

What started out as a simple news post on EvilAvatar.com quickly turned into a raging inferno over how slow the PlayStaiton 3 really was. Sites such as The Inquirer and Team Xbox decided to pop their heads in for a gander at the situation and ended up joining the party.

Now, another user on EvilAvatar.com says that the quote was nonsense.

A user by the name of " Red Cloak" posted a " quote" that he said was from the " latest issue of PSM" , or the September 2005 edition of PlayStation Magazine (PSM) to be more specific. The " quote" in question was said to come from an nVidia spokesman and read precisely like this:

" The GeForce 7800 is almost identical to the RSX, the rsx is only slightly less powerful."

Following up on the issue at around 3:15 PM EDT this afternoon, user " Lexicon" came around with what he says is the actual paragraph from which " Red Cloak" derived the " quote" from.

" There' s no doubting that NVIDIA' s new 7800GTX is the ultimate in PC graphics technology. The card' s G70 GPU, which is more than twice as powerful as two of NVIDIA' s previous top-of-the-line 6800 borads, shares a lot of similar workings with the PS3' s RSX chip - only it isn' t as fast. Oh, and it retails for $599."

Seeing as though " Lexicon" has been around slightly longer than " Red Cloak" , I feel it only right to take his word on the matter. It seems too much like an ill-conceived idea for Sony to be using the RSX GPU if it has already been surpassed by the 7800 (or even the 7800 GTX) and, given the nature of the quote in question, I can' t see an nVidia spokesman making such a comment.

With that said, hopefully we can put this rumor behind us and keep our minds open about Sony' s PlayStation 3.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

A sequel to Einheinder. That' s the game you want them to make Joe.

Screw that, I' ll take Thunder Force over Einhander ANY DAY and twice on Sundays. Einhander was OK, but I couldn' t really get into it (like all Square games). I seem to remember the phrase " pushing up daisies" from the game, though. I liked the music, but even that got old kind of quick.

What they need to make is a non-crime game that isn' t a sequel to something else and also isn' t an FPS game. What do we have that fits that category? Alan Wake! Forget it. The Xbox360 lineup is boring. The only game that even sounds promising is Ridge Racer 6 or whatever it is, and we haven' t seen even one single screen from that game. If it is going to be a launch game and they can' t even give us any screens yet, then that game is going to be filled with bugs.

So far the Xbox360 game lineup is about as exiting as a stadium full of flacid penises.

Well for FPS and racing fans its extremely erect.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Joe your trying to tell me that Dead or Alive 4, Ghost Recon 3, Perfect Dark 0, NBA 2K6, Madden 2006, and Project Gotham Racing 3 are all boring WTF are u on man!? Thats a great starting line-up for Xbox 360.

Yes. You may like those games in your mainstream world, but I' ve played them all before. The only thing better about DoA 4 will be the graphics. Otherwise it' s still a fighting game that we' ve all played before. Also did you notice that every single game you listed is a sequel? WTF are u [sic] on?

And Locopuyo, I am a huge racing game fan, yet nothing in the Xbox360 lineup interests me. I find Gotham Racing pretty lackluster, Screw those " kudos" !

Hell I' d take a sequel to the uninspired NANOSTRAY over Einhander :P...

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Try convince any european to buy madden/nfl...
I wont ever play it,i saw some NFL at tv,it was very boring,they run like 5 meter get stopped...wow
Or even basket,FIFA is soon not worth buying,i recommend everyone to go pro evultion soccer,those japanese people know how to make " fotball games" not EA.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Also did you notice that every single game you listed is a sequel? WTF are u [sic] on?

Whats wrong with sequels joe? These games may be mainstream but they are still great games. and no matter what DOA will always be my favorite fighting series of all time.

well american footbal is just that american. just like Europeans are crazy about soccer or futbol and Canadiens are loopy for hockey.

We in sweden dig hockey very much too :)

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Whats wrong with sequels joe?

Is that all you want?

No, but just because a game is a sequel it doesnt mean that a game isnt fun or bad. Games like Soul Calibur 2, Splinter Cell:Chaos Therory, & Halo2 are all sequels and their fun as hell.

No, but just because a game is a sequel it doesnt mean that a game isnt fun or bad. Games like Soul Calibur 2, Splinter Cell:Chaos Therory, & Halo2 are all sequels and their fun as hell.

What did ps3 show as their ace titles?
Metal gear solid 4,Gran turismo 4 and killzone2...

Sequals is never wrong,i can understand that you want something new Joe,but they will be on the xbox360,for ex sakaguchi(ff creator) promised new systems to his RPG' s.
ANd his games will probably mark something new

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

yeah like i said earlier the mistwalker games are so far the only reason why i want the Xbox 360. He is also making a game for the DS

I know

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

hehe

but i read that Square-Enix suport the market leader and if Nintendo or MS become the market leader and seieng the PS3 is so damn expensive to make for they might change plus MS has ALOT more money then Sony and Nintendo combned they can do Square-Enix what Sony did to Nintendo and bride them away from sony like sony did to Nintendo hehe. Final Fantasy XIII on the Xbox 360 or Relution hehe. Also Kingdom hearts 3.

Yeah but sony own some stocks in Square-enix,and they wont ever let those goes,but they are not more then 8%...so Basically s-e doesnt have to follow sony,but 8% is still much seeing how big company S-E is.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Ok, the only explanation I can think of that makes ANY sense is that Einheinder must have kicked Joe and Terry' s ass so hard that they are bitter towards the game. I don' t know what else you' re looking for in a shooter, but that game had it all. Inspired graphics and music, a great weapons system, elaborate bosses, and a great setting. Maybe if you like your shooters more the style of Dairius with it' s 30 foot dancing women you wouldn' t like it but other than that it baffles me.

[:' (]

That' s Parodius, not Darius! Fool! Einhander just wasn' t that great. It was more style than fun. It really needed more fun. Just like all Square games, the style seems to be the main goal. I didn' t get my ass whooped by that game because it really wasn' t that hard. I' m good at da shooters. Try beating Thunder Force IV which continues to hold my attention to this day. Try beating Gradius V. I did. Einhander ain' t got nothin' on Gradius V!

I never said sequels are bad. I love a great many sequels myself. But I look at the Xbox360 initial lineup and see sequels of games that bored me to tears in the past. I hate Madden (except for the original Genesis version). I do not care for Tom Clancy or Michael Crichton or even Stephen King. I see a whole bunch of domestically programmed games, and domestic games tend to be on the slower, more boring end of the spectrum. I' ve already played Dead or Alive 2, which was exactly like 3 and Ultimate (which the exception of the graphics, of course). I don' t give a flying rat' s ass about online games. I want fun. I want instant (or at least near-instant) gratification.

I look at the Xbox360 and I see... the current Xbox with nicer graphics.

Ok, the only explanation I can think of that makes ANY sense is that Einheinder must have kicked Joe and Terry' s ass so hard that they are bitter towards the game. I don' t know what else you' re looking for in a shooter, but that game had it all. Inspired graphics and music, a great weapons system, elaborate bosses, and a great setting. Maybe if you like your shooters more the style of Dairius with it' s 30 foot dancing women you wouldn' t like it but other than that it baffles me.

You forget that shooters are my thing :D. Please don' t hurt me BUT to me Einhander is a little similar to Nanostray in that with both games I didn' t come away with any kind of feeling for them whatsoever. When I play a great shooter, my blood is pumpin, the neutrons are flowing, I' m excited as hell and I' ll shout it to the ' heavens' , but I didn' t feel any kind of excitement while playing either of those games.

As far as challenges go, Einhander has absolutely NOTHING on Cave' s shooters :p.. If you can survive a shooter developed by Cave then you' ll walk right through Einhander no problem

I' m not saying Einhander' s a bad game, but to me it gets smoked by plenty other shooters easily, but that' s to be expected given that it just wasn' t Squaresoft' s genre. But they still deserve lots of credit for trying to branch out and experiment a little and doing a decent job with their first shooter offering. But unfortunately it seemed to sort of be a one-shot deal for them. Instead they should have learned from their mistakes with Einhander and continued refining the process. By the time they released a third shooter it could have probably been among some of the all-time greats. IF there' s an Einhander II sometime in our lifetime, I think they should do the smart thing and hand development duties over to Treasure! :D

Ratings-wise I' d slap Einhander with a 7.0/10 AT MOST, same with Nanostray. Einhander had a nice graphical style, the sound was decent at best -- I have the soundtrack CD and outside of a few short, but nice sections in 3 of the songs, I didn' t care much for the music in that game. Give me Salamander 2' s soundtrack any day of the week. Heck, give me the music of the SNES version of Gradius 3 (not arcade), now that had some memorable stuff as well.. The gameplay of Einhander was ok, but with so many other alternatives out there, it was an easily forgettable experience for me.


**Runs for his life!*

Maybe if you like your shooters more the style of Dairius with it' s 30 foot dancing women you wouldn' t like it but other than that it baffles me.

I like shooters of all types and the Parodius series is definitely one of my favorites. It' s one of the most charming and humorous games on the planet. I mean you' ve got a parody on the Gradius series with all types of wacky elements in the game such as the aforementioned Las Vegas styled showgirl bosses, your ship using a condom as a force shield (wonder if that' s one of the reasons they never brought the games to the states) , LOL.. I also like the ' Ambiguously Gay Duo' -like element of the Choaniki/Super Big Brother games. Then you' ve got the more serious-minded R-Type series.. R-Type Leo remains my favorite of the bunch while the game seems to be universally hated by hardcore R-type fans.. R-type Final was a huge disappointment to me in the gameplay department, I beat the game without even dying and that' s NOT supposed to happen with the notorious R-type series. The whole game just felt soo subdued. But to its credit, the nostalgic elements were simply Awesome, especially seeing the mechanical worm boss from the original R-type along with it' s mound. Man did I ever get goosebumps!!

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

I knew I' d get some hackles up there! Thanks for pointing out the Darius/parodious error of mine Joe, you are right I was wrong on that one. I do play lot' s of shooters, and while I agre that the lower difficulty levels of einheinder weren' t that hard, the hardest level really ramped it up, and the end boss was insane on hard. I think that' s where most of my memories come from actually, cause I used to get to the end of the game so often, I' d play damn near every night, and then no matter how many lives, or continues I had left, that thing would kick my ass.

For those who are interested in this technical stuff. There was a thread about PS3 and Xbox360 real world performance at the Dojo a while ago.
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~shenmuedojo/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24929&highlight=

The articles mentioned provide alot of insight actually. They' re quite long but really worth reading for those interested. It shows that many performance claims are utter BS as usual.

About all those teraflops for example :

In the end, despite what these horribly concocted numbers may lead you to believe, they say absolutely nothing about performance. The exact same situation exists with the CPUs of the next-generation consoles; don' t fall for it.

Right now, from what we’ve heard, the real-world performance of the Xenon CPU is about twice that of the 733MHz processor in the first Xbox. Considering that this CPU is supposed to power the Xbox 360 for the next 4 - 5 years, it’s nothing short of disappointing. To put it in perspective, floating point multiplies are apparently 1/3 as fast on Xenon as on a Pentium 4.
...
The Cell processor doesn’t get off the hook just because it only uses a single one of these horribly slow cores; the SPE array ends up being fairly useless in the majority of situations, making it little more than a waste of die space.

But maybe more important : for me personally there aren' t any games announced yet that REALLY would make me want to buy a new console. Not that all are bad. But just not that interesting either.

Just one look at his numbers and i can already tell he' s full of BS. Stop wasting time with all this bias technical dribble I say. Not even a week ago there was an article about the PS3 GPU being weaker than current gen GPU' s (which turned out to be false). Enough is enough already. Too many corporate suits lying through their teeth. Too many misinformed " tech heads" assuming they know everything only proving they know nothing. The only thing that matters is the only thing that ever mattered -- the games. You' ll know what system has better graphics when you see the games. You' ll know which system has better physics once you see the games. You' ll know what system has the best textures once you see the games. And while you are all busy looking at pretty games, I' ll be too busy playing them. \,,/^_^\,,/

Gears of War!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

That article is pretty stupid. These processors aren' t made for " real world" situations. They' re designed specifically for one single purpose: Games. So of course they aren' t going to be good at all of the same stuff your PC is good at.

The only thing that matters is the only thing that ever mattered -- the games.

Exactly. I can' t wait to get my hands on PDZ. Give me something awesome Rareware!

Final fantasy 13,lost odyssey,metal gear solid4,halo3,killzone2,gran turismo4,pgr3,blue dragon and dragon quest 9,Doa4,pdz,resident evil5 and mayby shenmue3?! just to mention few on consoles.
They are reasone alone to go next-gen,and not spend money on your pc.
ofc NR games too,but i wanna see them first(i know zelda/mario kick ass).

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ORIGINAL: UnluckyOne

They' re designed specifically for one single purpose: Games.

Actually the Cell processor was not designed for games at all, which is why the floating point calciulations are much higher than the general purpose calculations. The Cell processor is just one of those new things Sony wants to flood the market with. they plan on having computers and media devices using the processor. Imo, it probably will fail outside of the PS3.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

That article is pretty stupid. These processors aren' t made for " real world" situations. They' re designed specifically for one single purpose: Games. So of course they aren' t going to be good at all of the same stuff your PC is good at.

Eeh, I guess you interpreted this wrong. When they say real world performance they mean everything else instead of rare peak performance under laboratorium conditions. So they are talking about what would matter for games and that is real world performance. By the way, even developers, including Itagaki, have complained about the new consoles. With Xbox360 being the better one of the both now. PS3 was called a pain in the ass by someone, don' t remember who.

Anyway, it' s not as if I' m obsessed by these numbers. The opposite even. I judge by the games the consoles will get and not the numbers they use to create hype.

PS3 was called a pain in the ass by someone, don' t remember who.

Yes john carmack said that about developing to ps3,but then again in his company they are only like 20 people,and he also clearly said that people who want to develop gonna have a very hard time but fix it.
great companies like square-enix will have no problem with it,nor other big companies,but the small ones can get problem with " cell" for ex.
Anyway you talk about being hard to work with next-gen well the good thing is though,that they dont have to make the game to alot of diffrent spec or tone done of something to fit more comps,or dont use the maxium power of the latest 3dcard.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Oh, this is precious. Has there ever been an article or rumor regarding this flunk of a system that has been positive? NO!! This is hysterical! Just a forshadowing of Sony' s doom to come

" Nintendo' s an innovator,
Sony' s an imitator."

Yet, for some reason, it' s Sony that gets all the credit.

Let' s not forget how much a pain in the ass a lot of developers thought the PlayStation 2 was to develop for, some even going as far as to compare it to the hair ripping experience of coding for the Sega Saturn. But in the end they had no choice but to learn the system as it was the dominant platform in the console race and Sony did its part in trying to help developers along with middleware tools.

I believe the same will apply to the PS3, it' ll most likely be the most sought after console next-generation and developers will once again have no choice but to stop their b' tching and learn the system. I' m sure Sony will once again help them along with some middleware tools to help speed up and ease the development process.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.