Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month?

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Phoenixxx1974
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Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 25, 2005 22:37
Hey everyone i was reading engadget.com to see what the headlines were. And not sure how credible this story is seeing how Nintendo NEVER goes to TGS. But here is the story.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000677056066/

SPOnG can be a little irregular in the credibility department, but they’re “confirming” with “100% certainty” that Nintendo is finally going to unveil the Revolution’s much-speculated-upon controller, as well as show off several different games running on the next-gen console, at next month’s Tokyo Games Show.

Although it would be smart to to show people that their system will be around half the price of the other 2 competitors seeing how MS is costing like $300-400 all the way upto $2000 for gamestop' s omega bundle haha. Also god knows how much the PS3 will cost seeing how the crazy ass president Kutaragi saying " It wil be expensive" more then once and saying " i want people to work extra hours to be able to buy our system" (aint gonna happen). Nintendo is always smart about pricing their system and i am 99% sure it will not be over $200 plus it already comes with the biggest library being able to play Gamecube disks like Twilight princess, the download feature which is awesome, and it' s own games like Mario Kart and Super Smash brothers on FREE wifi network unlike paying for xbox live.

I do admit this is the only system i do plan to buy at launch. I plan to wait to buy Xbox 360 and PS3 until the price drops and the RPGs come out.

All you Nintendo fans cross your fingers. Everyone else not able to afford the other 2 systems here is you chance to buy a next gen console for a very good and resonable price for what you get. Plus the games should be cheaper for it.

OmegaRed
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 25, 2005 22:39
Muline loking controler Revolution...lucky^____^...

Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 25, 2005 22:41
does that mean you approve? what does muline mean?

Auron
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 02:19
It' s about time they revealed the bloody thing so I' m hoping this is true, BRING IT ON NINTENDO!

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 06:33
I' m ready to be severely dissapoinyed!

Seriously though, I hope the controller is great. I just don' t see a controller being a system seller. they are making it out like it' s the second coming of God and everytime that happens with a game it' s a dissapointment (Halo 2!). I plan on getting a Revolution, thoughprobably not at launch. It depends on how many 360 games are being relaesed at that same time.

By the way Pheonix, the WiFi service may be free but if you actually think you' ll be downlaoding all those old game for free your crazy. My guess is $10 a pop for the oldest NES games minimum. Hell, they are still selling the old Mario games on the Gameboy for like $20. This isn' t like the PS2 where is you already own the game there is nothing more to pay for. Nintendo will be making money off of this. Big money.
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mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 07:28
I think the games wil be a little cheaper Rampage, maybe 10-15 for 64 games, but cheaper for others. I actually see them bundling groups of games together and selling them for a higher price, maybe Super Mario 1 2 and 3 for 15$.

Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:10
Well you never know, Nintendo is the first to have analog controllers now everyone has it, they were the first to have Shoulder buttons now everyone has it, they were the first to have the rumble pack now they all do. The had the powerglove, the Uforce, and now touch screen and dual screen, who knows what ideas Nintendo has. Plus Nintendo has some pretty smart brains over there and don' t count them out everytime they come up with a new technology everyone follows. (BY the way what ever happen to the Sony lawsuit? they were suppposed to cease all sales of the PS2' s, controllers, and bunch of games).

I don' t think they will be that much plus i read that Nintendo said that they will have promotions and give away downloads and if you buy certain games and stuff you get a free download like the napster download get a free download if you buy this etc.. plus the might have a monthly service where you can download unlimited games for one fee which i would totally do. I wonder if they wil also include Japanese and european games we never got and give them games they never got (although japan has everything so they are not worried). I don' t really care about playing online enough to pay for it yet so it' s cool that, they are making that part free. I would totally pay for the old games.

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:25
I honestly hope it' s as good as you think. I want a Revolution and I want Nintendo to do well. I just have an aching feeling that this new controller isn' t going to come anywhere near the hype that Ninetendo is flooding around it.
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QuezcatoL
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:27
Yeah,shigeru was with and designed the N64 controller that was amazing,but the high people of Nintendo still cant admit not going CD for n64 was wrong,nor that gc should have used a dvd...
And now they will skip HDTV support for NR,what would Nintendo be without shigeru?!

And yes losing Enix+Square was a great way to win in japan for Sony.
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Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:31
yeah me too after the disaster of staying with cartridges and claiming it will be cheaper but it fact it was more expensive was almost a near fatal move. If they didn' t have such big name first party games they might have died out. The loss of Square Enix was a very damaging blow along with other 3rd party support. I hope this round they do better seeing how they are most likely much cheaper and the download service should help.

What if the controller is like a DS? 2 screen display and you can choose either touch screen or normal contollers and the touch screen wil be like maps and stuff. Like using your GBA to play four swords and crystal chronicles.

Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:36
from what i was told and read. THey said HDTV is still not main stream yet and still expensive. The HDTV support for Europe is under 10%, the US and Japan still in the low double digits. Plus the games would cost more to make. Which makes sense. Remember Nintendo says to them being fun, innovative and being different and keeping the game industry new and original is more important then flashy boring games and the same old stuff over and over. Which i agree the NES and SNES games were not flashy but simple and fun.

QuezcatoL
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:41
Yeah,but for those who have hdtv...the support should be there.
I doesnt have hdtv and will not get one untill 2006-2007 then mayby the price is somewhere right,and then it would be fun if i could take the advantage of higher graphic resolution,even though i know Nintendo games isn' t about graphic...
Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 08:45
I think Nintendo knows that if you care about flashy games then the PS3 and XBox 360 shoudl satisfy you craving. Don' t get me wrong, you never know the games on the Revolution should still look beautiful but not super high HD quality. BUt liek i said they care more about it being fun then flashy from what i was told when i sent them an email asking them about the HDTV support.

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 09:15
If the no HDTV means being able to keep the price reasonable, and not rediculous (sorry, I' m still very miffed at the rising costs of the industry.) then maybe it' s not such a bad idea. I think game companies are coming dangerously close to a price point that will exclude people simply because of finances. This is a world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, I think the game companies are forgetting who they want to market this stuff to. Sure, some people will be able to afford anything, and a another group will sacrifice to get one cause they are hardcore fans, but the families who are getting it for there kids as a toy, and that' s a lot of families, I think they' ll bethe ones that previously had a gaming system, that now will go with the cheapest one simply because it' s the cheapest.

Raide
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 09:17
I guess it depends what your view of fun is. If squad based FPS, Big MMO style games and some great sports titles is what you view as fun. Then the PS3 and 360 will be great. If you view fun as Mario games, Starfox games and Metroid titles and various old nes,snes and n64 titles. (To name a few) Then the Rev will be your choice.

I am in it for MMO games and Online play, no matter what style the game is. So 360 fits me perfectly. MS are the only group than can and does manage a great online service. Nintendo has been there always in the game industry, it would not be right without them but their inability to help their fans and their inability to let them know anything about its new console is a bit of a worry. Added to this is their insistance to jump on with Sony in slagging off MS and the 360. One of these companies will backfire soon and I fear it may be Nintendo.

Sega dropping out was good and bad. It does mean they can produce their oen great titles on multiple consoles.

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 09:19
$300 and $400 dollars for a console isn' t a lot. If you look at the history of console prices it' s basically normal for initioal cost. The only console I' m worried about costing more than normal is the PS3. If it comes out at higher than $450 that will be getting too high.
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 09:41
300-400 isn' t exactly normal, but you are right, it' s not far off. last generation, I believe PS2 and Xbox were 300, cube 200. Let' s ignore the cube for a moment, cause it' s different. So yes, 300 was normal for the other 2, but they were the full fledged systems, not a bastardized version. Now I realize you are getting a much more technologically advanced machine again (just like every generation), but this time they' ve bumped up the price 100 bucks for the full machine, regardless that you get more stuff, it' s still an initial investement of 100 bucks more. If we go back to the generation before, Sony had a weird launch with the playstation and I don' t know the price, but I believe it was 299. N64 was the same I think. The PS1 however didn' t really takeoff huge until 97, and that had a lot to do with FF7, that game sold systems. Before that is the SNES and Genesis, and those systems were 199, came with 2 controllers and a game. so if we just look from 15 years ago, for 200 bucks you' d get a system 2 controllers, and a game. now you need to spend 400-500 (depending if you want the crappy version of the 360) to get the same thing. Lord knows what you' ll need to spend to get a PS3 with a game and 2 controllers I' m betting upwards of 600. Then depending on where you live, add up to as much as 15% sales tax, that makes it 700. You know what I mean Rampage? I' m just pretty disgusted at Microsofts and Sony' s attitude that we should feed there pockets. Do I want a 360? Hell yes, the thing looks sexy, I' m impressed with the support, and I like the periphials. I have to wait till it drops though, I just can' t defend spending that much money. And tis is not me being elitest, I' ll be happy to play anybody' s 360 if they buy one, and i' m not bashing those who do, cause there financial situation could perhaps easily justify it, the windows just getting smaller.

Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 09:58
I think the most Nintendo ever charged for a system was $250 if even that. Which is why i am almost certain the Revolution will be around $200 and the only one i plan to buy at launch being the most decent price especially for what you get.

Yes you are right the PS1 became super popular when FF7 came out and is still known by many includin gme as the best RPG ever (for me Xenogears is alost one of the best RPGs ever). Same thing with the PS2 FF10 made the PS2 super popular not to mention the backwards compatibility.

It' s scary to think how much the PS3 wil be when you add the accessories and games being on Blu-Ray and production might be high at first so they could cost alot while the Rev' s games should be cheaper since DVD' s have become cheap to produce and not using HDTV which at first i was upset about but then when you think about it it' s a smart move HDTV is still not mainstream enough to warrant the extra cost. I think the Rev has a bright future especially since people who can' t afford the other 2 wil stick with the Rev. ALso don' t underestimate the power of old school download games. Not many peopel know about ROMS so this is their only way to play old games they missed

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 10:12
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/643/643170p1.aspx


Atari VCS launched in 1977 for $249.99 $811.21 in 2005
Nintendo Entertainment System launched in 1985 for $199.99 $354.91 in 2005
SEGA Genesis launched in 1989 for $249.99 $389.67 in 2005
NeoGeo launched in 1990 for $699.99
$1041.12 in 2005
Super Nintendo launched in 1991 for $199.99
$282.21 in 2005
Jaguar launched in 1993 for $249.99
$328.69 in 2005
3DO Interactive Multiplayer launched in 1993 for $699.95 $920.30 in 2005
SEGA Saturn launched in 1995 for $399.99 $497.66 in 2005
Nintendo 64 launched in 1996 for $199.99
$242.75 in 2005
SEGA Dreamcast launches in 1999 for $199.99 $228.09 in 2005
PlayStation launched in 1995 for $299.99 $372.01 in 2005
PlayStation 2 launched in 2000 for $299.99 $333.15 in 2005
Xbox Launched in 2001 for $299.99
$325.34 in 2005
GameCube launched in 2001 for $199.99
$216.89 in 2005


You are only going off a few consoles, not the broad range of them. There were more consoles launched that were even more than this. Hell, people should stop complaining about the 360 price completely. Sure the core package is lacking in the extras department, but seriously... this is the first console to completely devistate any computer on the market. Bethseda Software said no computer will be able to run Oblivion as well as the 360. The 360 is technology that shouldn' t even be in our hands for a couple more years based on previous trends in computers and consoles. The computers that will have this technology won' t be out for a while. Complaining about paying $400 dollars for a super computer is rediculous. I see your point about people having trouble affording these things but this hobbie of ours has never been cheap. An extra $100 dollars isn' t much for the average gamer. Hell, that' s only 2 games.

How much have you spent on your consoles this genreation? Most likely a lot. Those somewhat higher prices mean what... a whole 2 or 3 less games a year? The 360 prices aren' t bad at all. This constant complaining is getting old.
< Message edited by Rampage99 -- 26 Aug 05 18:14:24 >
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" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

Phoenixxx1974
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 10:20
I don' t mean to sound like i am complianing. I am just saying that people who can' t afford it will most liley just sitck with Nintendo because they are always the cheapest f the 3 plus they have the biggest og the big franchises like Mario, Zelda, pokemon, Metroid, Donkey Kong, etc..

you know what i mean? it' s nice to have a system be decently priced of course it doesn' t do everything the Xbox 360 and PS3 does but most people don' t even care about those features. They just want to play fun games you know?

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 10:49
It' s not getting old, it' s valid, and sorry Rampage, but it is not a " super computer" . It' s very advanced, but it' s nowhere near the leauge of true super computers. Secondly, compairing it to Atari' s launch is rediculous. That was a budding technology, one of the first home video consoles ever. Microwaves cost 10,000 when they came out, but if you had to pay 600 bucks for one now you' d complain and rightly so. As for the other console' s you' ve listed, the only ones higher than the XBOX 360 are the Neo Geo, 3D0, and Saturn. Where are the companies who put those out now??? What' s getting old is your constant inability to admit that this is getting expensive and that people have a right to be pissed about it. I respect a lot of what you say in these forums, you seem to be very knowledgable Rampage, but to tell me to just be happy and put up with the rising costs is just rediculous.

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 11:10
It is a super computer. Whether you want to believe it or not, it is. Scientists agree. The teraflop range is where things are considered super computers. It' s not a high end super computer, but it is a super computer. Again, where are you going to find a PC anywhere near thos specs? No where because it' s not out yet because it' s to pricy for the market yet.

It' s not to expensive. It just isn' t. You can complain and moan, but it isn' t. The extras like the contrllers, I agree are getting to be a little much. a wireless controller should not cost what they are advertising. The console itself though is a great deal. $400 is not a lot for what you are getting, it' s a steal. MS even gives you the option to buy the machine for $300. If you complain about that not having the HD, compare it to thePS2. The PS2 didn' t have a HD and you had to buy a memory card. I think the memory cards were like $35. That' s only $5 less than a 360 memory card and the 360 card is much bigger. So far the core 360 package is running at the same price in almost every aspect as the PS2 at launch yet you are complaining which is BS. The console is so much more powerful than a PS2. It' s so much more powerful than anything out. If you compare the 360 directly to the same state of the market when the PS2 came out the 360 is much better in every aspect other than the extras. The PS2 didn' t have the features, it wasn' t more powerful than the computers at the time, and so on...

The complaining is old and not valid. Complain about the controllers. Even the prices of the games have come back down to $50 bucks for next gen games on EB.Go look for yourself. there are a few exceptions (DOA3, PD0 LE), but most have come down. That means the only thing left to complain about is the HD (which I have already agreed is too expensive simply because it' s only a 20 gig), and the wirelss controllers. Other than that the price of the 360 is basically no different than last generaton.

*edit- here' s even more*

The premimium package comes with numerous extras too, not just the HD. It comes with a remote(which you' d have to buy extra this gen), it comes with a headset(which you' d have to buy extra this gen), it comes with a ethernet cord(which you' d have to buy extra this gen), it comes with more advanced cables(which this gen you can' t find coming with the console package and they are more expensive on the side), and a wireless controller(does nintendo even offer the wireless controller included with any GC package?). You are getting a lot of equipment for that $100. MS is saving you a butt load with that package.

If you can' t see that costs really aren' t rising after reading all that then you have some serious flaws in your logic. I' m not trying to be offensive but seriously, it' s all laid out.
< Message edited by Rampage99 -- 26 Aug 05 19:25:50 >
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QuezcatoL
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 11:14
About those prices...remember inflation and currency was diffrent.
I mean for ex when bill clinton was in charge one dollar was worth 11 kronor,when bush took over it wen down to 6 kronor :)
Now its 7,60 kronor but its shift heavily.
Also the console' s before costed alot of money because gaming wasn' t " mainstream" as it become with nes and psx...and oh btw,psx costed lesser then a core package does now,and it came with a demo of a lot of games.
But lets just be honest,it did not come with a DVD,and not a 32 mb 3d card but a 512 mb worlds best graphic card in it :)

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 14:44
Worlds 500 fastest computers This list is 2 months old, and XBOX 360(1.15 TFLOPS claimed) is not as fast as #500. Interestingly PS3(1.8TFLOPS) would put it around #242. XBOX 360 comes out in 3 months. Last year # 500 was 600 gigaflops. given the advances in tech, I' d be surprised if by November anything under 1.5 TFLOPS makes the list of supercomputers. You' re really getting your panties in a bunch over this Rampage, Everytime you post it' s about how powerful the 360 and teraflop this. No PC can compete, and that' s how it always is. Sorry, but when PS2 came out all you heard was supercomputer this, and that. It wasn' t. It didn' t take too long for home PC' s to out do it. The same will happen here. Nov 2007 You will see games on PC' s that the 360 can' t do as well as. The home PC industry isn' t stupid, they know how to make their machines fast too.

That' s not important though, that' s a line that' s being shifted higher every day. My point was never that the 360 was too expensive for what you get, it' s that it' s too expensive. When did videogames become a half thousand dollar hobby? That' s just to play one game! You compiled that list, and the early systems all came with games, and the later systems didn' t cost as much. It' s also unfair to simply tack on an average inflation rate and then do the math. Technology has actually gotten cheaper to produce while the price of gas, food, housing etc has caused inflation. My logic is flawed because I can' t see that costs are rising?? Open your eyes. This system is more expensive than previous ones, costs ARE rising. Regardless if this is the most powerful system yet, 5 years ago you walked home with the best console and a game and it was 340 bucks. This year it will be 460 to get the best. That' s an increase any way you look at it. Call it a premium package, call it whatever, the point is videogameing is becoming more expensive, and no I don' t have to like it, and if I don' t stand up and say " what the hell, what about everybody else who can' t affor this" I' m being selfish and short sighted. Home Computers cost less today than they did 5 years ago, by A LOT. DVD players, cheaper, Tv' s cheaper, Home Appliances cheaper.

We abviously see things different, but we' re hijacking a thread, let' s just PM eachother from now on to continue talking if you want to, that way this can get back to revolution controller issues. (looks for hand shake smiley but cannot find it).

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 15:20
Obviously you' re not cathcing on and didn' t pay attention to anything I said so I just goignt to stop arguing with you. I have enough stuff to back up my statements. Saying compouters have gone down in price is true, but that' s outdated technology. the state of the art computers today cost the same as what those cheap computers cost when they were state of the art. Alienware always has a $5,000 computer. It' s not decreasing. Your arguement is flawed but you can stick with it if you want. I don' t really care. It' s just that the empty price complaints are getting annoying.
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" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 15:44
You seem to have missed my PM box, it' s the little balloon above my gollum head.

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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 16:32
Finally damn, i' m not expecting anything big, hopefully it surprises me.

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 17:31
Looks like It' s all going down at the TGS
I agree it' s about time, and it looks like it' s for sure happening at TGS, I' m pretty pumped.
< Message edited by mxpx182 -- 27 Aug 05 1:32:34 >

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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 19:06
.. Is the cat fight over?? Can I stop ducking now??

I am very excited about Iwata' s TGS speech. It' s about time we hear some new info about Revolution. I can finally get away from Sony' s cancelling announcements and how Microsoft plans to rule the world.
" Nintendo' s an innovator,
Sony' s an imitator."

Yet, for some reason, it' s Sony that gets all the credit.

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 26, 2005 23:11
Man, I wish it would' ve been a cat fight. That would have at least insinuated there were possibly hot chicks involved. As it is it was just two dudes sittting in front of there computers, maybe with stained t-shirts on and pron downloading in the background.

Rampage99
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 06:43
I had Jessica Alba as my desktop while we were arguing so I consider that having a hot girl around
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It' s true - Aug 27, 2005 17:28
People, let me just add to this, the news is 100% true, Iwata will reveal the controller at his TGS presentation. So now you know.

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 18:06
Adam. You have gone out on a limb here! Myamoto was 100% going to give us matio 128 at E3!! Man I hope you are right, I can just see some joe at Nintendo start the whole " what if they steal our idea" conspiracy again, and Iwata simply shows a black outline of the controller as a ' hint' ! I' ll trust you on this one though, and start getting excited.
< Message edited by mxpx182 -- 28 Aug 05 2:06:41 >

Terry Bogard
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 18:34
INFIDEL! How Dare you remain doubtful! Repent now heathen!
Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

mxpx182
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 18:58
I shall not repent. I shall instead remain hopefull that as I predicted it comes with a pine air freshener attatched.

Joe Redifer
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 19:31
When is Tokyo game Show? Is Adam going to be there in person? Tokyo Game Show should be held at my house instead.

QuezcatoL
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 19:34

When is Tokyo game Show? Is Adam going to be there in person? Tokyo Game Show should be held at my house instead.


hello?!...your house is to small.
Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Terry Bogard
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 19:44
I' ll be at the Tokyo Game Show in 2010 for sure!
Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Joe Redifer
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 21:18

hello?!...your house is to small.

Dude, my basement is bigger than all of Japan.

Terry Bogard
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RE: Nintendo to reveal the Revolution Controller next month? - Aug 27, 2005 21:24
The fact that his basement can hold 4 Xbox units is testament enough of that!!!
< Message edited by Terry Bogard -- 28 Aug 05 5:24:52 >
Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

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