PS3 vs. XBOX360

Turning back to the main subject of either 360 or PS3....

Xbox 360 is the choice, besides the fact that its going to come out first... don' t forget that though ps3 gonna have those HD features, that " boomerang" controller is a total turn off from the dual shock controllers.

i change my vote. xbox360 is going to be better because bill gates is on top of things at microsoft. at least, more on top of things than sony. sony pisses me off. the ps3 might not even be out in the u.s. until 2007. what the hell?

ORIGINAL: Terry Bogard

Screw all of you. I' m getting an RF adapter, pulling out the ol black & white TV and enjoying the Xbox 360 the way it was meant to be enjoyed!

You my friend are a pimp.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I can' t decie but im getting xbox360.
Cell might be more powerful but thus alot harder to work with,just ask carmack for ex,its like 7 diffrent core' s speaking diffrent langauges.
But if they sort that out in 1-3 years and manage to use every core then ps3 will be more powerfull.
Also its intresting about the graphic cards,46 pipelines and using the power of the card up to 90% every time.

But for me i feel that the most games will look better on xbox360 because of better software development kits from MS,while some few games might look best and be on ps3,when a developer like S-E use cell to its fullest.

But still i feel games is the most importent things,and now when WADA(president for Square-enix) hint for multiplattform with FF and DQ serie Xbox360 look stronger,ofc he could also mean they will just make som spin off like FF:Crystall was to Gamecube.

But sakaguchi on xbox360? holy cow O_o
Lost odyssey and blue dragon is 2 reason why i would buy xbox360 alone,no matter what happends in the future.
And Nubuo,icant understand why kikizo never asked about nubuo an his music,since he done the music in ff1-ff10 and in chrono trigger.
And if you ask me Nubuo make the best gaming music.
But then again omg kikizo!!!!you got a video interview with Sakaguchi,i been looking thru some sites for info since e3 just about sakaguchi and his games,and you make a damn video interview with him??!!!

Best gamingsite ever :)
Im a true FF fanatic,and sakaguchi wrote for ex the event+stories alone from ff1-ff5 and then did the ff6+ff7 with kitase.
And how sakaguchi came up with " lifestream" i have no clue,what a gaming genius.

But please kikizo,if you read this and manage to get some new questions to sakaguchi please ask about nubuo and his music,he would really appreciet it.
Also about not getting game over in lost odyssey,i think he said so because the main character dream about his past for 3/4 and just re-dream like contiune if he dies in his dream.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ORIGINAL: QuezcatoL

Cell might be more powerful but thus alot harder to work with,just ask carmack for ex,its like 7 diffrent core' s speaking diffrent langauges.
But if they sort that out in 1-3 years and manage to use every core then ps3 will be more powerfull.

The Cell chip is one hell of CPU. It will kick ass if it makes it' s way into computers. As a gaming chip... it' s not so hot. While it has a huge amountof power for floating point calculations(actually douvling the 360s ability in that aspect), those types of calculations aren' t what games really use. They use more general purpose calculations. The 360' s cpu is 3 times more powerful than the cell in that aspect. The 360 also has a more powerful GPU. The PS3 isn' t as well focused on gaming as the 360 is.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I found this post pretty intresting...



Since Xbox 360 will be using dual-layer DVD (9GB) for games, some people are probably wondering if that' s enough for next generation games. Let' s look at what will be stored and how it will be stored.

Two techniques will save tons of space: Compression and Procedural Synthesis. Compression involves taking existing data and squeezing it into a smaller space either with a lossy or lossless algorithm. Procedural Synthesis involves creating new data (geometry, textures, etc.) at runtime.

How much can 9GB store with compressed data?

WMV 720p 6Mbps - 3 Hours
WMV 480p 2Mbps - 9 Hours
WMA 128Kbps - 156 Hours
WMA 96Kbps - 209 Hours
WMA 64Kbps - 312 Hours
WMA 32Kbps - 625 Hours
Texture 1MB - 9,000 Files
Model 256KB - 35,000 Files
Level 20MB - 450 Files

Obviously, WMV 720p is high definition (HD) video, while WMV 480p is standard definition. WMA 96-128Kbps would probably be used for music, while WMA 32-64Kbps should be enough for most sound effect samples.

1MB texture is enough for 32-bit 1024x1024 resolution with 4:1 compression rate. The ATI GPU has compression formats for color maps and normal maps, so all textures can be compressed with excellent quality.

I' ve estimated average sizes for model and level files. Models are objects and characters. Levels contain the geometry and scripts for a game map or section.

Where might procedural synthesis be applied?

We should see procedural synthesis most commonly with geometry. In some cases, entire complex objects can be created in real-time from a tiny dataset. In other cases, extra geometric detail can be added for smoother curves (i.e. tessellation).

Procedural textures are also useful. It' s good for some real-time special effects and variety in surface details. Instead of taking a texture file from disc, the GPU can just render the texture to memory and apply that to polygon surfaces.

Some games may try to get fancy with real-time generated levels or procedural audio.

How much of each file type might be used in a game?

Depending on the game and procedural synthesis applied, the balance of file types will vary. But we can estimate sizes for an example imaginary action/adventure game.

Levels - 2GB
Textures - 2GB
Models - 1GB
Video - 512MB
Audio - 128MB
Other - 128MB
Total - 5.75GB

2GB of levels, 2GB of textures, and 1GB of models would make a huge game. 512MB of FMV (full motion video) is enough for either 12 minutes of 720p HD or 35 minutes of 480p. 128MB audio can store 140 minutes of WMA 128Kbps.

Current generation games, especially on PS2, waste a lot of disc space with duplicate files to speed up access times. Plus, to save processing time, compression algorithms are not very advanced.

For next generation games, compression and procedural techniques can be improved for the much faster processors. And duplicate files are not needed when we have faster drives (12x DVD) and a hard disk drive for caching.

Current Generation
- Duplicate Files
- Minimal Compression
- Minimal or No Procedural Synthesis
- Wasteful FMV

Next Generation
- No Duplicate Files
- Advanced Compression
- Advanced Procedural Synthesis
- Real Time Cutscenes








Mayby that answered some questions about DVD be to little for games,and that some ps2 games used 7-8 gb.
But really i gotta agree with this guy,i doubt that when you skip FMW and stay in the game with its real time graphic(like we should i mean this is next gen and 2005 we are to far in technology to even bother with it now),and with the availbility to compress files instead of duplicate them then that 9gb will be far then enough.
HD-DVD and Blue-RAY might be a good choice 2010 etc but not now.
Don' t you agree guys?!

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

Man... you guys are getting real technical on me here...

" Nintendo' s an innovator,
Sony' s an imitator."

Yet, for some reason, it' s Sony that gets all the credit.

that is a lot to read. a whole lot. ummmmm............yes? compression is the gist of it, right?

ORIGINAL: Jason Zeidan

Man... you guys are getting real technical on me here...

Reading the technical stuff helps to get a more informed opinion. this stuff was a breeze compared to what I normally read about the consoles.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

I am going to but the 360 because they have alot of shooters. I love to play shooters. The best shooter for the xbox now that I have played is DOOM3. Also Halo was cool but Halo2 was a real let down to me.

why? dual weapons. that did it for me.

ORIGINAL: J_Dizzle

why? dual weapons. that did it for me.

Cause the story sucked, the changed to much about the characters behavior, you had to play as the God aweful Arbitor( who in my opinion is possibly the worst character ever created), the pacing was horrible, the level design was lacking, the graphics were glitchy.... I could go on and on. The first one is my favorite game of all time, and this was a horrible attempt at a sequal.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

whatever, i liked it. the story was pretty gay, but the multiplayer was good.

Never played it b4...I don' t like games with a sucky Storyline or no story at all.
Just pure violence. like its all start new game and you run around kill things

The Shadows Light Unleashed...

I will get the XBoX 360, because for me the XBoX has been the best console of the actual generation (besides the good ' ol Dreamcast, of course). And I want a gaming machine, not a freakin' entertaiment system with super computer calculating abilitys.

ORIGINAL: Evilkiller
And I want a gaming machine, not a freakin' entertaiment system with super computer calculating abilitys.

Technically the 360 is what you just described.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

A-a-a-also the Revolution.... is... what... he' s describing..

" Nintendo' s an innovator,
Sony' s an imitator."

Yet, for some reason, it' s Sony that gets all the credit.

I know, but the Focus is still on Games. It' s still a " childs toy" , a console not whatever Kutaragi means.

Kutaragi is already saying that the next gen, after ps3, will be like the human brain! *laughs* Why don' t console sellers just tell us the truth. " You will have a few great games and then we will fill your store shelves with tired/rehashed/boring games." Most people are heading to PS3 based upon 2 things

1) The Sony name.

2) That Kutaragi and some pre-rendered e3 footage said it will be great.

I currently have an xbox so the 360 fits nicely into what I want. Online, multiplayer, great graphics and multimedia stuff. It has my vote.

As for the 7 PS3 controllers, according the tech specs on Bluetooth - Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR) logical maxium is 8, which is 1 master unit and 7 slaves. So yes you wil be able to use 7 pads but the question is..what for? If you thinking of games using 2 tv' s, why not 8 players as only having 7 seems really dumb. You will not see many PS3' s with that many pads, its just a number Sony can put on the specs that make it higher than the 360.

If you want multiplayer games, the 360 will have a better live system. Sony has yet to announce a really solid, working alternative to XBLive. They will have lots and lots of work to do to catch up with MS.

ORIGINAL: Jason Zeidan

A-a-a-also the Revolution.... is... what... he' s describing..

Actually no... simply because we know nothing about the hardware part of the console. All we have seen is the case.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

oh god, how many Xbox 360 Debates/Agruments are you involved in Rampage? i didnt look through this thread [10 pages? are you kidding!? ], but these are getting sicking, can we all go back to the good all *happier* days?

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

I probably get both,to much great games i miss out otherwise.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ORIGINAL: Silentbomber

oh god, how many Xbox 360 Debates/Agruments are you involved in Rampage? i didnt look through this thread [10 pages? are you kidding!? ], but these are getting sicking, can we all go back to the good all *happier* days?

What? What are you talking about? All I was pointing out was that Jason was saying stuff that has no backing. We don' t know anything about the hardware in it yet. It wasn' t meant to compare it to the 360. I just wanted to point out that Jason was making a false claim. You don' t need to get on my back for it.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

oh sorry Rampage i was a little tired when i posted that last night. I didnt mean it in any offensive way, but thats the way it came out. MY bad. Just the 10 Pages or so looked like a mighty long er debate.

Now to the Topic at Hand.. PS3 RUllZZ11!!

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Now to the Topic at Hand.. PS3 RUllZZ11!!

^^

Mayby we should wait to it to release first.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ORIGINAL: Silentbomber

oh sorry Rampage i was a little tired when i posted that last night. I didnt mean it in any offensive way, but thats the way it came out. MY bad. Just the 10 Pages or so looked like a mighty long er debate.

It' s cool

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

DEfinetily The PS3 becuase iam a loyal fan to sony and there great games like Jak 3.

RE: PS3 vs. XBOX360 (in reply to J_Dizzle)


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" im gonna wait for the ps3 to come out myself, only cause it is going to have a bad ass nvidia card like twice as fast as the new 7800gtx, which is like the best video card for the computer that they make. once you put a hd on there its supposed to be just a super fast pc basically. gonna be sweet. ill prolly end up gettin xbox360 though, cause its gonna let the psp interface with it, and how freakin sweet will that be?"

RSX (ps3 gpu) will not be twice as powerful as the 7800gtx they are the same with different clock speeds, the 7800gtx runs at about 430-500mhz with a memory speed of at least 1000mhz while the RSX is said to run at about 550 with a memory speed of 700mhz. In other words, RSX is actually slower then the 7800gtx . However since we are talking about a closed system (like any console) the ps3 will still kickass, just don' t expect it to be any different from the 360.

XBOX360 GPU actually not as fast as PS3 GPU

I originally found this story on IGN or something, but apparently the bigwigs at Nvidia made a comment about the 360' s GPU being faster than the PS3 chip, but now they have retracted or corrected their statement and say that while it still kicks ass, it is not as fast as the PS3 GPU. This article is from an Xbox webpage, so I don' t think it' s all fanboy arguments.

" I originally found this story on IGN or something, but apparently the bigwigs at Nvidia made a comment about the 360' s GPU being faster than the PS3 chip, but now they have retracted or corrected their statement and say that while it still kicks ass, it is not as fast as the PS3 GPU. This article is from an Xbox webpage, so I don' t think it' s all fanboy arguments."

The GPU in PS3 is said to run at 550Mhz and the GPU in 360 is said to run at 500Mhz, but this is only how fast they go. Mhz is not a direct correlation with performance, Mhz affect how fast it can do one clock, but with different architecture come the fact that each GPU do not do the same ammount of work per clock. For example looking at pc cpus AMD runs at much lower Mhz then Intel yet they perform better (the AMD64 chips do at least) so Mhz isn' t everything. So technically the RSX is 10% faster then the R500 however it is yet to be seen as to which one actually performs better. My bet is on the R500 though. It has a revolutionary design, 48 unified shaders that can each perform pixel shading or vertex shading, to put that in perspective the RSX has 24 pipes for pixel shading and 8 pipes for vertex shading. In addition to the 48 unified shaders the R500 also has a sister die that has 10mb of super fast embeded ram that essentially will act as a frame buffer and provide 95% of 4X antialiasing. Don' t confuse the R500 with the upcoming R520 for pc, as the R500 acording to ATI is much closer to the R600 in terms of design abd performance.

I' m not confusing anything. This statement is from Nvidia themselves saying that the board in the 360 wont' s perform as high as the PS3' s. Take it up with them if you want to disagree, but I' ll trust the company making the GPU for the moment.

Umm... again, nVidia never says their GPU is more powerful than the 360' s. They are comparing the RSX nVidia card to the 7800GTX nVidia card. They are just comparing nVidia cards.

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "