4:3 TV? Don' t Buy Xbox360

in a recent interview, Michael Cassius said that also non HD TV will be supported, but 4:3 TV will habe black borders (like when you play a DVD on a 4:3 TV).

It' s ridiculous, many and may people in Europe still have 4:3 TVs, and Microsoff oblige us to change TV.

I Say " NO" to Microsoft

-Shenmue, it' s time for your saga...to begin-

That' s funny, I always thought europe was ahead of NA on the whole 16:9 tv thing. I' d say only 1 in a 100 people here have a 16:9 tv, with that ratio being slightly lower among gamers, but still of all the gamers I know (a lot) I' m the only one with a 16:9 tv. the black bar issue sucks.

The amount of letterboxing that would be present would be slightly LESS than Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube. Did you have a problem with that?

There are a few sights (Kikizo included) that are whining about the HDTV support thingy for all of the consoles (Nintendo has said Revolution will support HDTV as well). They are only whining because they don' t have HDTV' s. With videogames finally ebracing the technology in full force, this will definitely help sell more HDTVs, which in turn will increase their production and lower their prices. It is a good thing. There is no " bad" about it. I know some of you want to stick with the ancient technology forever, but you can' t. We must move forward. You don' t have to buy an HDTV right away, but when you do you' ll have some great games ready to take advantage of your new set. If you refuse to buy an HDTV just because you are not ready for this crazy newfangled technology, then you deserve the obsolesence that you will eventually receive. Just don' t go into a panic. You have more time than you think to make the switch, and the letterboxing will not destroy you.

Just as an aside, all Sega Master System games were letterboxed. Every single one of them. The SMS could change the color of the bars, though.

aye you really cant buy any large 4:3 TV' s here in the UK anymore only the little 21" ones and even those are been replaced by widescreen ones.
I kinda expected this saves the developers a bit of time, didn' t Halo 2 have a messed up HUD in widescreen as it had been made with 4:3 in mind.
I think i' ll get a HDTV for when the PS3 is release, I' ll be in Uni by then looks like i' ll be wasting a big slice of my student loan

I agree Joe, I' m not saying there' s anyting bad about the 16:9 support, or HDTV, just too bad that games won' include a 4:3 mode as well. I suppose this could lead to problems however if developers are developing games specifically ofr 16:9 and the stuff they want you to see won' t all fit on 4:3.

they should get rid of 4:3 tv' s.Its the 21st century.look at the future leave the past behind.Microsoft is pushing the technology forward.

But since most of you gamers are just cheap ppl who dont work and cant afford a decent HDTV' s.

Thats good that they dont really support 4:3 tvs.No one needs extra crap on the system.Its like those gay VHS,DVD player combos.

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Let' s not get too elitist here (a little is OK) otherwise it' ll just make everyone hate people with HDTVs.

HDTV, eh? why get one? what is the point for shelling out the cash for an oversized tv? seriously, all i want is a tv that can play the games, a good cheap 14" will do [which i have now] but i suppose it does hamper my experiance a little bit, might get a 28" widescreen. Its not that i dont like HDTV but since you have saved all the money, waited for the price to come down, and finally got the damn thing, another new craze sweeps the country and suddenly haveing an HDTV is regarded outdated. I am sorry, the only time i will shell out for a new tv is when my one is int supported.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

HDTVs aren' t oversized. HDTV only means increased resolution. I' ve seen HDTVs as small as 12 inches. When you get your " widescreen" TV, you might as well get an HDTV. In fact it might be pretty hard to get a non-HD widescreen TV unless you go out of your way and get a plasma EDTV.

It will be a loooong time before HDTV is outdated. They will probably come out with something higher res eventually. More and more TVs will start supporting 1080p.

HDTVs aren' t oversized. HDTV only means increased resolution. I' ve seen HDTVs as small as 12 inches. When you get your " widescreen" TV, you might as well get an HDTV. In fact it might be pretty hard to get a non-HD widescreen TV unless you go out of your way and get a plasma EDTV.

Ahh good I was just about to ask you the different HDTV sizes available! Must look into the price range of 20-27 inch HDTVs if they have em yet... If they' re in the $500+ range then I' m gonna need to email Yu Suzuki and beg him to send me one since I' m one of the VERY few people that truly enjoyed Virtua Quest and continuously promotes that game

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

My HDTV is 34" , and it is a Sony Wega XBR (basically the top of the line direct view CRT). It cost $2000. My friend pruchased a 30" Sony Wega HDTV and it cost $1000, but it didn' t have the built in tuner, and also no XBR, etc. But it is good. Sony is usually priced a bit high, but a 27" widescreen HDTV without tuner will probably run you around $700-$800 on average right now. You can still watch analog channels on it, though.

It is also important to note that old games which play in 240p like Genesis, Snes, everything before those systems, and the majority of PS and Saturn games do NOT look good on an HDTV at all. I can post pics if you' d like. Keep an old 4:3 NTSC analog TV around for those games and systems.

Another important thing is to make sure the HDTV you are considering supports 480p, 720p, and 1080i. This is why I recommend Sony TVs. Sony makes crap that falls apart right out of the box, but their TVs have no " moving parts" so they actually work pretty darn good! I think Mitsubishi' s (not sure) do not support 720p AT ALL. Some TVs only allow for certain resolutions on certain inputs. Sony HDTVs will all resolutions over both component inputs, and they also always have an HDMI input (something else to look for).

It may sound expensive, but Terry can just sue a few more people at his day job and he' ll have the cash in no time! :)

hey joe how come old consoles [snes etc] look horrible for the hdtv, i know they werent meant to be put on something like that, but it should work right?

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

That' s a sweet TV you got there Joe, I would' ve liked to have gotten that one, but just didn' t have the cash. I have the Toshiba 30HFX84. I was going to get the 34 inch, but space restrictions forced me to go with the 30 inch. It has bbeautiful picture, but unfortuantely one of the cost saving devices was no 720p. I don' t miss it now, but I probably will in the future. I got it for 999 Canadian though, so I really shouldn' t be complaining at all. As for finding 27 inch widescreen tv' s cheep, you won' t, they don' t make 27 inch, only 26 inch (Punch me in the face now for being a stickler). I did see the toshiba 26HF84 WITH a toshiba carosel DVD player going for 499 canadian at future shop. This is a smaller tv, but sorry, that price is just rediculous. It has a few less features again, but if someones looking for a cheap HDTV you can' t get cheaper than that.

And Also Silientbomber, I can agree with Joe that old stuff looks like crap on HDTV. Even Standard Definition stuff from your cable box the imperfections stick out.

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That' s great Riddick, come to our forums only to post twice in two seperate messages for us to come and join our forums. I' m so glad you stayed on topic at least.

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I think Microsoft is making the right decision. Just like when they eschewed dial-up modems in favor of broadband, they are taking gaming to the next level. Plus, it' s not like you can' t play the games on a 4:3 tv. They' re just letterboxed. Of course this is easy for me to say, as I like the 16:9 aspect ratio, and always bought letterboxed dvds, even before I had a HDtv.

Take a look at this.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000247033123/

Nice. And the price is right, too. I' m all for slimming these things down, cause my Sony HD is a b**** to move!

The reason old systems look like crap on HDTV sets is becase all of those systems ran in 240p, or progressive scan. Unfortunately this is not a form of progressive scan that HDTVs recognize. It is kind of a " cheat" to get lower resolution out of an analog NTSC or PAL TV and still have it look good. When this 240p signal is input to an HDTV, it is converted to 480i (or 525i in the case of PAL or SECAM, which no one cares about). This gives the image a very aliased and blocky look.

Take a look at the pics below. Both pictures used the same SNES, the same ActRaiser cartridge, and the same S-Video cable. Both TVs were made by Sony. Both pictures were taken at an angle (left looking right). Notice that we never got a ActRaiser sequel, but anally raped instead.


Here is ActRasier on a normal analog NTSC TV



And here is ActRaiser on an HDTV. Yucky yuck!


Games that run in at least 480p look freakin' awesome on an HDTV, though. Even games that run in only 480i (most PS2 games) look pretty good.

Notice that we never got a ActRaiser sequel, but anally raped instead.

It still hurts when I sit. My cousins bought that game that they put the " ActRaiser 2" name on. fools.

It' s great news that Microsoft is launching the HD-era, though you can' t really appreciate it unless you' ve blown a few thousand on an HD-ready set yourself. The difference between gaming on your old 19-inch CRT and a 51-inch LCD is staggering.

At wal-mart i saw a 27 inch CRT hdtv 3:4 720p for only $300. And in the USA they are forcing all air waves to go HDTV in 2007 or something, so you' ll basically have to have one, unless u get one of those converters. Anyways, they are going down in price. There are also other options, such as viewsonic adapters to turn your montior into a HDTV. They cost less than $200, but it was well worth it. I use my 22 inch monitor to play xbox games along with my computers 5.2 surround sound.

You don' t even need to buy an HDTV and surround sound system. Just get a Platinum version of a sound blaster card, so you can input optical dobly digital 5.1, and the viewsonic HDTV adapter. Use your computers high def and surround sound capabilities. If you don' t already have the parts for it it' ll cost you less than $300, instead of $3,000, it is deffinetly worth it.

"If you knew how good I am you would think I'm modest."

Yeah, but you' re also getting $300 quality as well, and $300 does not buy a good audio/video system.

Also, if you see a 4:3 HDTV, RUN! There is no reason for those to exist anymore. It will take the HD signal and letterbox it.

I have to say that I find it dissapointing that companies are purposely ditching 4:3 support.

Arcades do not have 16:9 screens and I would get a HDTV in order to achive a picture quality closer to the crispness of VGA. I' ve seen fighting and racing games running in widescreen and I think it sucks. To me they just don' t suit those type of games.

Sure Resident Evil 4 looked better in widescreen, but I would have liked a 4:3 option as a choice.

After all these years of putting up with shity black borders, and to finally get rid of the problem via a 60hz option for PAL gamers, it seems we are being shot in the foot again.

For gaming 4:3 is THE way for me. 16:9 is great for moves and stuff.

Movies and general entertainment now infuence gaming more than gaming influencing itself. Still, if I am forced to buy 16:9 then I will do so.

Arcades can be any aspect they want. Lots of vertical shooters use 3:4 instead of 4:3. Games like F355 Challenge (a crappy game, it' s not even as good as FF7) uses 3 screens, if I remember correctly. Widescreen means that you see more playable area (in the next generation, games in this generation like God of War zoom in). Seeing more is good. It' s like hearing the enemies behind you in Doom 3 for the Xbox (which is right on par with FF7). You can hear where they are and know quickly to turn around and shoot them... if you have Dolby Digital 5.1.

The only issue with the F355 three-screen setup is that each monitor display was powered by a separate Naomi board, so because of that type of setup, when it came to converting the game to home consoles I don' t think the developers would bother with anything other than the action happening on the central screen..

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Gran Tursimo 3 copied F355 in that respect. Provided you had 3 TV' s, 3 PS2' s, 3 copies of the game and a couple iLink cables you could set it up to use 3 screens ala F355.

But yes widescreen is the future. It' s just a shame that widescreen TV' s are somewhat rubbish when it comes to playing all your old 4:3 games.

The future they may be, but I still think fighting and racing games look strange on them.

Anyway I remember Microsoft saying that all games are going to be made in 16:9 but then the hardware will convert it to 4:3, without a stupidly squashed looking display.

Hopefully it will do the same with the HD signal.

Are there any fighting games which support 16:9?

Racing games are perfect for widescreen gaming.

Soul Calibur 2 had great widescreen mode, when I played it at my mates who had a widescreen tv it seemed much better than 4:3 imo

Soul Calibur 2 had great widescreen mode, when I played it at my mates who had a widescreen tv it seemed much better than 4:3 imo

What you were probably seeing is a " zoomed" Soul Caliber on their widescreen tv, as Soul Caliber is only 4:3. This was actually one of the big complaints when it came out. It is indeed HD, but isn' t 16:9 for some reason.

As far as other games being 16:9; there' s DOA Ultimate and Mortal Kombat: Deception. I think they look great in widescreen. And both are JIGGLE-TASTIC!

Chee, you' re thinking of the Xbox720p mode of Soul Calibur 2. The 480p mode of the Xbox version as well as both the Gamecube and PS2 version of the game all run in widescreen. The Xbox is not quite powerful enough to play Soul Calibur 2 in HD and widescreen at the same time. It has quite a bit of detail.

Forenzo Motorsport for the Xbox also has the 3 console/3 TV setup, expect I think each TV can be widescreen. I hear the game sucks ass, though.

As for fighting games in Widescreen:
-Dead or Alive 3
-Dead or Alive Ultimate
-Soul Calibur 2
-Tekken 5

There are probably some others. (the " jiggle" physics in these games are poor. Obviously the programmers have never touched a real boobie, but they HAVE touched water ballons).

As for racing games, they look freakin' great in widescreen. Sega is one of the few companies that know how to do widescreen perfectly (no stretching). F-Zero GX is a perfect example. I had played that game like no tomorrow, and then I eventually got my HDTV. Turned on the progressive scan and widescreen modes and WOW! It was an amazing experience! The old 4:3 mode could not compare. It really did add to my enjoyment of the game.

Check out the comparison pic I made from Super Monkey Ball 2 on the Nintendo® brand Gamecube system, available at your local Toys R Us:

Obviously the top is 4:3 and the bottom 16:9. I used a replay file to capture this, so I could get the same exact frame in both 4:3 mode and 16:9 mode.

Don' t go and make me post a comparison shot of Out Run 2 or F-Zero GX!

Outrun 2 is great in widescreen. Was the arcade version running in widescreen or 4:3?

The arcade version runs in 4:3. Pretty much like 90% of arcade games.

Yes, therefore the home version of Out Run 2 is better visually than Out Run 2 arcade.

Not exactly, progressive scan 480p or even 720p through component cables are no match for an arcade VGA screen. Even if the resolution is only 640x480.

In the end it' s all down to personal preference. I can get used to widescreen, Resi 4 took me all but a few minutes (and looks awesome), but for most games I prefer 4:3.

If they made all the next gen consoles output VGA though, then I wouldn' t care less what ratio the display was. Hell, even progressive scan through an RGB lead such as RGBHV would be good enough.

Not exactly, progressive scan 480p or even 720p through component cables are no match for an arcade VGA screen. Even if the resolution is only 640x480.

That really depends on the monitor you are viewing it on. In most cases I will grant you that VGA beats out component at the same resolution, but VGA 640x480 does NOT beat out 1280x720 component by any stretch of the imagination unless the component TV really sucks balls (which can happen). But still, you are seeing more with the Xbox version of Out Run 2 running in widescreen than you are in the arcade. Therefore it is better visually at home. My TV is really really good at 480p. In fact, I' d say there is barely any difference when running the Dreamcast in 480p versus running it on a VGA monitor.

That really depends on the monitor you are viewing it on.

That I can say is pretty true, have you guys ever seen Sega' s NAOMI games being displayed on what I like to refer to as standard NAOMI monitors? OOOOOOOOH Droool!! Such amazing crystal clarity!

Then you' ve got those same games being displayed on other types of arcade monitors and it' s pretty much Ewww yuck city. One of the best examples I remember is that crapstastic game, Zombie Revenge.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

That one game called Super GT game looked awful in the arcade. Bad convergeance and everything.

It didn' t control too well neither, but yet a lot of other folks consider it to be the greatest arcade racer of all-time. lol.. I usually tell them that I' ll save that title for an arcade racer that I actually enjoy controlling.

Terry Bogard - currently the most Unhelpful member of the Kikizo forums.

Hey no if they had an modified xbox(one that doesn' t ever display the xbox logo in the arcade dispalying the video game at 720p nobody would know they would just notice the eye burning HDTV quality ouch!

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But since most of you gamers are just cheap ppl who dont work and cant afford a decent HDTV' s.

I don' t want to be cheap but I have to. I' m one of 6 children in a family of 8.