Russian 58th Moves into South Ossetia [Georgia] - Georgian/Russian Armies Clash in Capitol Over Seperatist Conflict

Updates as they happen.

BREAKING NEWS: Georgia's Foreign Ministry says that Russian aircraft have bombed Georgian military air bases, inflicting some casualties.
Developing Story, will be updated; read previous story below:
Parts of Russia's58th Army — including 150 tanks and armored vehicles — reportedly weremoving Friday on the capital of South Ossetia after Georgian troopsentered the city in an attempt to crush separatist forces seeking tocontrol the breakaway province.
Kakha Lamaia, a member of Georgia's National Security Council, told Reuters the two countries are "very close" to war, if not already at war.
"If it's not war, then we are very close to it," Lamaia said. "The Russians have invaded Georgia and we are under attack."
President Bushand Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin reportedly were discussingthe Georgia crisis after attending the opening of the Beijing Olympicgames. The U.S. has called for an immediate cease-fire between Russiaand Georgia.
Russian Foreign Minister SergeyViktorovich Lavrov told Reuters that he is "receiving reports of ethniccleansing in villages of South Ossetia."
Russiawill cut all air communications with Georgia from midnight on Friday, aspokeswoman for the Russian Transport Ministry told Reuters.
• Click here to read Russian President Medvedev's Statement on Georgia Crisis.
Fightingescalated between Georgian and Russian forces escalated earlier in theday with Georgia claiming to have downed four Russian combat warplanes,and Russian planes bombing the Vaziani airbase outside the Georgiancapital of Tblisi. A Georgian interior ministry spokesman said threeGeorgian soldiers were killed in the airbase bombing.
Georgia'sForeign Ministry said that a Russian raid Friday on the Marneuli airbase destroyed several Georgian military aircraft and inflictedunspecified casualties. It said that Russian aircraft also bombedanother base in Bolnisi. Rustavi 2 television reported four people werekilled and five others wounded at the Marneuli air base.
RussianGround Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov said that 10 Russianpeacekeepers were killed and another 30 wounded durring Georgianshelling of their barracks.
Georgian officials denied firing on the Russian forces.
Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that Moscow was receiving reports that villages in South Ossetia were being ethnically cleansed.
"Weare receiving reports that a policy of ethnic cleansing was beingconducted in villages in South Ossetia, the number of refugees isclimbing, the panic is growing, people are trying to save their lives,"he said during televised remarks in Moscow from Russia's ForeignMinistry.
• Click here to view photos.
Georgian troops launched their offensive to regain control over the South Ossetia.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili accused Russia, which has close ties to the separatists, of bombing Georgian territory.
Saakashvili also said it was in the United States' interest to help his country.
ButRussian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said the Georgian attack willdraw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect SouthOssetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.
Russia'sChannel 1 television earlier showed a convoy of Russian tanks that itsaid had entered South Ossetia. The report said the convoy is expectedto reach the provincial capital within a few hours.
There has been no immediate comment from Russian officials.
Separatistofficials in South Ossetia said 15 civilians had been killed infighting overnight. Georgian officials said seven civilians werewounded in bombing raids by Russia.
Georgiadeclared a three-hour cease-fire to allow civilians to leaveTskhinvali. Georgia's Interior Ministry spokesman said troops wereobserving the cease-fire, which began at 3 p.m. local time (7 a.m. EDT).
Aspokesman for President Bush said Russia and Georgia should ceasehostilities and hold talks to end the conflict. NATO Secretary GeneralJaap de Hoop Scheffer said he is seriously concerned about the fightingand that the alliance is closely following the situation.
Georgia,which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled byMoscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of theSoviet Union. The country has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership— a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken itsinfluence in the region.
Saakashvili long haspledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and anotherbreakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairswithout international recognition since splitting from Georgia in theearly 1990s and built up ties with Moscow.
Relationsbetween Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushedto join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces toAbkhazia.
The International Committee of the Red Crosssaid it is seeking to open a humanitarian corridor to guarantee safeaccess to Tskhinvali. Maia Kardova, ICRC spokeswoman in Tbilisi, saidmilitary vehicles are being given priority on the main road leading tothe South Ossetia capital and this is making it difficult for rescuevehicles to get through.
Saakashvili urged Russia to immediately stop bombing Georgian territory.
"Georgia will not yield its territory or renounce its freedom," he said.
Asenior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, YuriPopov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings asmisinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.
Russia'sPresident Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his SecurityCouncil in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russiancitizens.
"In accordance with the constitutionand federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect livesand dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedevsaid, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death ofour compatriots go unpunished."
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

On the day the Olympics start?  Really?  Wtf...

XBL Gamertag: Rampage99

" Basically, pollute the air all you want, your just speeding up the inevitable. Our future generations are f*cked as it is and there' s really nothing we can do about it. Have a nice day "

Rampage99


On the day the Olympics start?  Really?  Wtf...

It's the perfect cover. Everybody is so caught up with the Olympics that this will get far less attention than it otherwise would have done.

That said, the Georgians have been shelling and sniping at civilians for months. I don't give a shit whether the territory is in dispute, you don't target civilians. If the reports of ethnic cleansing are true then the Georgians deserve everything they get.

It's been escalating for months now but Georgia moved yesterday to retake the province and Russia has moved in to stop them.

Russia has called an emergency UN Securuity Council meeting to try and figure something out, but the best that can be hoped for is for the Georgians to back down and for Russia moves some troops into South Ossetia. Russia has supposedly already taken out Georgia's airbases and none of the neighbouring regions are going to lend any assistance.

Um, it seems to be Russia are the good guys here.  Seriously.

G.I. JOSEPH!!! GET 'EM!!!

Um, it seems to be Russia are the good guys here.  Seriously.

It's not a good versus bad conflict.

Russia has had a vested interest in regaining it's old Soviet satellite territories for years, and there's no doubt any alliance they can keep with the South Ossetians will be kept, at all cost (and others like it, ones with less strategic importance).

Georgia, like many newly formed sovereigns has been stuck with civil wars and economic crisis after crisis after the Soviet Union turned them loose, and is looking to establish itself as a major player in world affairs. They've been trying to enter NATO for years, but have been rejected multiple times (In part owing to their faltering economy, but moreso I think to do with their stilted relationships with Russia), and by attempting to consolidate their splinter territories they were attempting to put on a show for the west, and Russia in one fell swoop.

Problem being, they've had years of problems in places like South Ossetia, and Abkahazia, and the majority of the population is ethnic Russian with Russian citizenship.

I can't speak on the ethnic cleansing rumors. There's been no facts, no photos, and no major news pieces from sources I trust to have no vested interest in delivering to me (IE, Ones that aren't Russian, or Ossetian). Propaganda wars have been a major part of new Russia's conflicts in the suckistans since the dissolving of the USSR, and this is no different. All we know for sure is that the Georgians and the Russians both are bombing the shit out of civilian areas (Russia leveled the capitol's hospital two days ago) in the sake of cooking some soldiers with the collateral.

If they can bomb their own buildings for the sake of starting a war with Chechnya, they can kill a few villagers and blame it on the Georgians.

Edit: The Georgians have regrouped outside the borders of South Ossetia after Russia ramped up it's bombing runs. Ukraine stated today that it may bar Russian naval ships from returning to port in Crimea because of their actions in Georgia.

It's not a good versus bad conflict.

It never is.

"This is sad. There's no other word for it. The person who invents a way to punch someone in the face over the Internet will make millions from the demand generated by people like this." Youtube comments

Yes it is

US Revolution War, Bad Guy = UK
WW2, Bad Guy = Germany and its allies

It's always blatantly obvious which side is evil.

Depending on what side you're on...

But I guess going by a majority thought then yeah there could be a good and a bad.

The concept good or wrong is mearly a human perception, a subjective one at that.  You can't measure evil because as an independant force it doesn't exist.

Every decision made is based on a common system (i.e. evironment).  If you understand the system you can predict a persons actions.  So where does right or wrong fit in?  There is no right or wrong, there is only cause and effect.  People who were informed about Georgia and Russia tensions predicted this years ago.  No one person chose this outcome.  Even the leaders of these countries were put in place for reasons.

The concept of good and evil is often used to justify war, notice how we're always the good guys.  Do you think they see themselves as the bad guys?  The broken concept of right or wrong is one of the glaring reasons religion fails.

Morality exists as a guide to help predict the desirerable outcomes.  We make so called right decisions in the hopes we'll see the best effects.  The so called wrong decision is supposed promotes the negative outcome.  The reason there are no good/bad actions is because sometimes a good action can have bad consequences and vice versa.  In war the short term outcomes are always bad, the long term outcomes are impossible to predict.  Yet everyone thinks they're the good guys.  I only see two assholes fighting.  It seems like life never stops fighting, the fights just get passed down to someone else.

In reality everyone is just acting based on primitive survival instincts.  The real good guys are the ones on the street preaching for peace.  There are ways that we can all survive and prosper, that's the best outcome.   

"This is sad. There's no other word for it. The person who invents a way to punch someone in the face over the Internet will make millions from the demand generated by people like this." Youtube comments

Yes it is

US Civil War, Bad Guy = UK
WW2, Bad Guy = Germany and its allies

It's always blatantly obvious which side is evil.

The US fought itself in the Civil War dumbass. That's why it's called the Civil War.

Look at the Russo-Afghani war. We sent four million dollars to help the Mujahadeen fight off soviet control of the gulf, and in turn helped to create Al Qaeda. Who was right there?

I meant the revolutionary war, fuck off.

Eddie_the_Hated

Yes it is

US Civil War, Bad Guy = UK
WW2, Bad Guy = Germany and its allies

It's always blatantly obvious which side is evil.

The US fought itself in the Civil War dumbass. That's why it's called the Civil War.

Look at the Russo-Afghani war. We sent four million dollars to help the Mujahadeen fight off soviet control of the gulf, and in turn helped to create Al Qaeda. Who was right there?

The bad guy in that case is Russia, if they didn't opress people nothing would have happened.

There's a difference between being the bad guy and the instigator. More often than not, response to aggression is not properly measured, and the reactionary party has as much fault as the instigating party.

I meant the revolutionary war, fuck off.

Don't be like that baby.

Why is the US transporting Georgian troops from Iraq, straight into the conflict zone?

Why, after retreating back to positions held prior to Aug 6th and putting a proposal forward for a ceasefire has Georgia resumed shelling Russian positions in South Ossetia... and why hasn't the US asked them to stop?

Because Russia began bombing Tblisi, located nowhere near South Ossetia or Abakhazia. Because they air-struck a civilian airport. Because they've now invaded undisputed Georgian territory. Take your pick.

I don't care how you go about your business securing borders, or ethnic groups, whatever. But you don't bomb civvies, and as of right now, there have been reports of targeted civilians on both sides of the conflict. That instantly makes them both wrong.

That, and because of the naval battle going on at the moment. Russia just sunk a few of their warships, and have no doubt, they're pissed about that.

President Bush today sharply criticised Moscow's harsh militarycrackdown in the former Soviet republic of Georgia, saying the violenceis unacceptable and Russia's response is disproportionate.TheUnited States is waging an all-out campaign to press Russia to halt itsretaliation against Georgia for trying to take control of the breakawayprovince of South Ossetia.
Bush, in an interview with NBC, said,"I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response ofRussia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of SouthOssetia."
Earlier, Vice President Dick Cheney said that "Russianaggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would haveserious consequences for its relations with the United States."

The US should be condemning both parties, but they laid down a condemnation of the conflict itself earlier this week.

Since when does Bush have the right to criticise someone else's military use?

Russia (and the USSR as it was) has always been imperialistically aggressive, and will always try and gain as much territory as possible especially those they considered to be theirs anyway. Georgia incidentally has always been a key player in Russian politics (Stalin and Yeltsin I think were both Georgians). It will be interesting to see how the UN responds to this, but I'm sure they'll just wash their hands of this.

The start of WW3 anyone?

The UN will just treat this like they do every African country. They'll just ignore it as long as possible.

The start of WW3 anyone?

Sounds like a date.

It won't be WW3.

That concept at it's core has been long exhausted. We learned our lessons in the alliance system in the first World War, and there's no agreed-upon imperialistic aggressor, as there was in World War II.

Not to mention, in today's day and age, land grabs for land's sake are relatively unimportant. Countries with key resources are on the top of any expanding nation's list, and Georgia....

Unless you're counting the oil pipeline that runs through an itty-bitty bit of their territory, they got nothin'.

Russia is an imperialistic aggressor, it has been for centuries and always will be. One could draw parallels here with the German annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938, where the appeasers let the aggressor get away with something deemed unimportant to the outside world. It will only encourage Russia to see what they could get away with next. It only takes a possible disruption in Caucasus oil supplies for the world to start taking this more seriously.