Shenmue: a misunderstood game

Oh yeah I forgot, I beat Chrono Cross as well! That' s menu based just like Skies of Arcadia and Shining the Holy Ark and Phantasy Star and Final Fantasy and every other damn RPG ever made. But it actually had some good music... nt JUST the final boss scene.

yoshi: Your experience isn' t enough to judge. It' s really that simple. I don' t claim to know what the best fighting games are; I can only go by reviews because I really don' t play enough of them to know. I don' t hold it against you that you haven' t played a lot of RPG' s, but I do expect you to realize when a sound opinion can and can' t be formed. I can say that Dead or Alive 3 is the best fighting game I' ve played other than Soul Calibur...and for people who know the genre, that' s laughable (or so I' ve heard). And I accept that. My limited experience is not comparable to others, so I submit to their expertise.

If someone who has seen three movies in their entire life said that The Fast and the Furious was the best movie they' d ever seen (the other two were Crocodile II and Rollerball), then their opinion does not hold nearly as much clout as someone who has seen a hundred movies. It' s a matter of simple math.

Joe: The entire statement is incorrect and ignorant. I don' t coddle people and say, " well, that' s your opinion," especially when it' s not even an " opinion" in the first place. Saying that playing FF VII is just like posting in this forum is retarded. Plain and simple. If you need me to pamper everyone who says such idiotic things, I' d suggest you look the other way when I post.

You know, statements like " every damn RPG is menu-based." Things like that.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Incorrect and ignorant or not, you sure went out of your way to insult him. Again, I say that speaks volumes.

It sure does.

People who bash games based on blatantly incorrect appraisals need to be straightened out. It' s like saying, " All strategy games suck because of those darn menus."

Don' t like it? Tough sh**.

Kikizo Staff Writer

Joe: The entire statement is incorrect and ignorant. I don' t coddle people and say, " well, that' s your opinion," especially when it' s not even an " opinion" in the first place. Saying that playing FF VII is just like posting in this forum is retarded. Plain and simple. If you need me to pamper everyone who says such idiotic things, I' d suggest you look the other way when I post.

i think u were just going through ur period

You know, statements like " every damn RPG is menu-based." Things like that.

i dont remember him saying a generalized comment like that. i remembe him saying that FF7 sucks, and that it is just like these forums

If you need me to pamper everyone who says such idiotic things, I' d suggest you look the other way when I post.

so dont pamper him. just dont do anything about it.




by the way the names jonah not joe. jonah

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Who ARE you?

Kikizo Staff Writer

All right, folks...

fathoms is one of those people who you can count on to tell it like it is. So, do not give him he** over what he says. Rather, take note of his words and use the information for what it' s worth.

I have had my moments discussing issues with fathoms, but the conversations stayed both intellectual and cordial.

So, before you go attacking people, understand that there are some here that will come across as being stern. That doesn' t mean that those people are being rude, it' s just that they are confident in themselves and the words they speak.

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.

I have had my moments discussing issues with fathoms, but the conversations stayed both intellectual and cordial.

That' s because you started off in that vein of intellectual and cordial, so I stayed in it. It was also interesting and well-thought-out on both sides.

The new phenomenon of saying " Oh, it' s just his opinion" has gone way overboard. Yes, there are opinions (and we' re all entitled to them), but there are facts in the universe, and when someone is wrong, they' re WRONG. And if you don' t have the motivation or intelligence to figure that out on your own, I' m going to call you on it.

I suppose people have a problem with that. But like I said before, I don' t really give a sh**. Be polite, be smart, don' t say stupid things, and have fun. I' ll reciprocate. Show that my grandmother knows more about games...and you' ll hear it from me.

Kikizo Staff Writer

It' s people trying to be ' politically correct' , rather than being honest and open about their feelings.

fathoms, you appear to refuse to subscribe to being ' politically correct' , and that' s what makes you come across as being difficult.

I see your strengths and respect you for who you are...never change to be something that you are not...just be yourself.

fathoms...I do believe that your persona is much like the Shenmue game... " mis-understood" .

Videogaming is the contemporary interactive pasttime.

fathoms, you appear to refuse to subscribe to being ' politically correct' , and that' s what makes you come across as being difficult.

I see your strengths and respect you for who you are...never change to be something that you are not...just be yourself.

fathoms...I do believe that your persona is much like the Shenmue game... " mis-understood" .

huh?

i dont really get how that works out, but i am going to end this thread of conversation.

fathoms, go ahead and call everyone anything u want. i dont really care anymore now.

this discussion on this is getting away from the topic of this thread anyway

It' s people trying to be ' politically correct' , rather than being honest and open about their feelings.

fathoms, you appear to refuse to subscribe to being ' politically correct' , and that' s what makes you come across as being difficult.

I see your strengths and respect you for who you are...never change to be something that you are not...just be yourself.

fathoms...I do believe that your persona is much like the Shenmue game... " mis-understood" .

I think you' ve got it..." PC," as it is most commonly known, has gotten severely out of control these days. I give people respect...when I think they deserve it. So far, I think you' re one of them. I wouldn' t want anybody to treat me any differently.

I love games. I have since I first touched the Atari joystick and watched in fascination as I suddenly found the power to direct a tiny white block back and forth across the screen. It' s why I' m here. Trust me, I don' t look to hurt or insult people...but I will never show leniency when they state falsities as fact OR opinion.

That' s just the way it is with me.

Kikizo Staff Writer

That makes no sense at all. My experience is not enough to judge? If I play just ONE RPG that I think is better than Final Fantasy 7...that automatically takes it off from the top of the greatest all time. And for someone to even compile such a list is absurd. At most games should be rated for their current generation.

Furthermore it is MY opinion, just as it' s GAMESPOT' S opinion or wherever the hell else you go this (haven' t seen many links). I think I' ve told you this before but internet sites don' t exact represent the thoughts of the public. The represent the thoughts of the website. I will say it once more...there are better RPG' s out there than Final Fantasy 7. Until I hear about all these little things that set it apart from RPG' s today my opinion will remain the same.

In response to the following complaint I have decided to change my signature:

" by the way, yoshimitsu you might want to click the little checkbox that makes your signature disappear." -Jonah Shoemaker, Residential Dumbass

It makes no sense? It' s a little something called logic. Or are you of the school that everyone' s opinion is just as important as everyone else' s? That my opinion on a particular hockey play is just as valuable as Jeremy Roenick? That my opinion on the republican party is just as valuable as George Bush? That my opinion on carpentry is as valuable as Bob Vila' s? Do you honestly believe that?

Opinion is BASED on something, my friend. It is based on a person' s experience, and the more experience a particular person has with the subject, the more VALUABLE his opinion is, because his " opinion" will be much closer to fact. An " opinion" of someone who knows nothing about hockey may not even be an opinion. It may be completely INCORRECT.

Or do you believe that there' s no such thing as right and wrong, either? Do you people really take it this far nowadays? Like the guy who fries his two-year-old baby in the microwave because he' s strung out on crack, and the social worker says " it' s not his fault" and he' s " made bad life decisions." F*** him, f*** his rights (which went out the window when he hit the Start button), and fu***** put a bullet in his head. Done.

I know more about RPG' s than you do. That much is not opinion. My opinion on this subject is not " right" , but it means a hell of a lot more than yours. Terry just posted an in-depth history of Sega today in another thread, and some of it I had never known. It was our OPINION of how Sega died, laced with some fact, but he had clearly done a lot more research on the subject than I had. Therefore, my opinion, which I am entitled to, is NOT as valuable as his.

If you want a rundown of my OPINION, just so you can find that probably a third of it never ocurred to you, then feel free to let me know. And I suggest you be prepared to counter the debate with your VAST knowledge of FF VII and any and all RPG' s that can be accurately compared and contrasted to it. Got it?

Kikizo Staff Writer

shenmue?!?!?!?

I have a hard time when you ignore the facts, Fathoms. I listed a bunch of games and you still refuse to acknowledge that games like Shining the Holy Ark and Skies of Arcadia are menu based. Hell, even stuff like Tales of Symphonia are RPGs, it' s only the battles that are different than most. Everything else is menu based. There are lots and lots of puzzles in ToS that require much patience. But for some reason this game does not count and thus my opinion is invalidated.

There is a large difference between not being " PC" and just being plain rude. I don' t think you' re " tough" at all, I just think your social skills are incredibly lacking. When you respond to someone' s entire posting abilities by refering to them as " retarded" , it just makes you look like a child scorned. Why is every single post by that person retarded? What is to be gained by belittling that person and their forum posting abilities? That' s the only thing you posted, and you didn' t even discuss why until I probed you about it. It was clearly your intent to insult the poster and make him/her think their opinions on the subject were not as high and mighty as yours. I think Final Fantasy 7 is boring as watching paint dry. So what? You have said that' s because I have ADD, which is a direct attack on me (along with my alleged constant need for flashing lights, etc etc), because nobody without ADD would dare become bored with Final Fantasy 7, right? So the only way to make your point is to take a condition like ADD and use it against me. What if I did have ADD? Are people with ADD to be made fun of? Or can you simply NOT comprehend that maybe not every serious game player in the world loves Final Fantasy 7 as much as you do? You really can' t stand it, can you? I don' t even know why you feel the need to argue so much. Will the game lose its reputation if you don' t stand up for it again and again? NO! Will the game' s quality diminish in your eyes if people like me don' t like it? NO! Countering an opinion is one thing, but you seem to insist on taking it to personal levels when you feel people aren' t understanding your point properly. You are NOT " telling it like it is" . If you were, I would have ADD and the other poster would be retarded. You are embellishing at the expense of others. Of course if the tables were turned I' m sure you would not appreciate it one bit. Please lay off the " holier than thou" attitude. You seem to think you are always right, and you ALWAYS seem to need to get in the last word. Go ahead and get in the last word then, if it will make you feel big and powerful.

Trust me Joe, fathoms has always been and forever will be like this. His opinions are concrete with information that you usually never see. If you disagree then you apparently have no experience on the subject, therefore that makes your opinion false. Just like how I' m an Xbox fanboy (yet I own and play all of the systems) and I haven' t played as many RPG' s as professional game reviewers (but once again I' ve played enough to know that Final Fantasy 7 isn' t the best).

If you ask me I think fathoms life is based on a large part of fiction from the years I' ve been reading his posts. He' s got this perfect body because he works out, got a good looking gf (years ago), has a great job where all he does is sit on the pc for a pharmacy, and plays videogames all day long. Oh, and I can' t forget all of those " friends" he' s made from all over that I keep hearing about...and yet I never see a list.

And before I forget...I' m considering PM' ing a man by the name of Anthropic with this little conversation and see what he thinks about it. That wouldn' t be a good thing for you fathoms would it? He was really the only one to really piss you off because he made you look bad...a lot. What do you think fathoms? It' s been awhile since you talked to Anthropic hasn' t it...

In response to the following complaint I have decided to change my signature:

" by the way, yoshimitsu you might want to click the little checkbox that makes your signature disappear." -Jonah Shoemaker, Residential Dumbass

Joe/yoshi: There is something very simple that both of you are missing: there was an incorrect assessment of a game earlier on in this thread. There was another statement, made as fact, that wasn' t. Joe, you try and be sarcastic a lot, but that' s only because you expect people to believe that...what if I just believed you' re being a constant ass and making fun of games other people like? Because that' s exactly what it looks like to me. yoshi, you only show up in these forums to take issue with something I' ve said, and when I propose a real debate, you ignore every last point I make and run off on a personal rant that has nothing to do with anything. Did you even read my last post? I asked you a question about what you think an " opinion" really is, and I asked you to talk about FF VII and all those other RPG' s you' ve played to substantiate your arguments. You did no such thing...you didn' t do anything but flip out and try and call in your pathetic reinforcements yet again. Anthropic doesn' t scare me; the child has the largest ego on the planet and is admittedly biased.

And if you' re looking for that " list," I' ve posted it about a dozen times before, but you just refuse to look at it. All you have to do is sign up (it' s free) to be a GS member, and you can see the profile here. Look at it all. At my last posts. At the Friends page. At the forum I post in. Go right ahead...I' ve offered before:

http://www.gamespot.com/user/profile.aspx?user=fathoms_basic

Joe, you said " ...menu-based, like every damn RPG." Your words, not mine. You were wrong. Admit it. yoshi, I repeat, you are entitled to your opinion, but as far as debate is concerned, which needs to be supported by EVIDENCE OF YOUR EXPERIENCE, it is NOT as valuable as mine. I bet my opinion on Xbox Live (which I don' t play on), isn' t nearly as valuable as yours. Why in God' s name is this so difficult for you to understand? Opinion is BASED ON SOMETHING.

My motivation to lie in random forums is nil. You decide you need to make things up to tear me down. Not once did I say I " have the perfect body." I lift three times a week because most of my family are/were big into the sport. I don' t even know why that matters to you. I work for a pharmacy? Really? It' s a medical communications company, and it' s not much more than your typical office job. I make good money, but I' m not rich or anything. Does this threaten you too? I don' t have a girlfriend, she broke up with me about six months ago. Yeah, that' s right, she dumped me. Does this make you feel better?

All it comes down to is that you don' t like the way I post. You can' t ever address real points, and you never have. Neither of you. I keep trying, and then you go and try and recruit old foolish fanboys to go on a flamefest that is completely unproductive. Read my last post, yoshi, and address it. Have a real answer ready. Until then, go to hell. You' ve known next-to-nothing about games for as long as I' ve known you. Maybe THAT' S why you don' t like me. It' s tough dealing with someone who continually proves you wrong, isn' t it?

In short, you can both fu** off.

Kikizo Staff Writer

didnt i say we should end this conversation? email all this shit to each other. other people dont really want to read it. doubtless some people do (they think its entertaining to) but most people dont. each of u want to have the last word, so this is gonna keep on going on and on and on, until hell freezes over. either give it a rest or send each other instant messages or emails or even open up a chat room if it makes u happy.

F*** him, f*** his rights (which went out the window when he hit the Start button), and fu***** put a bullet in his head. Done.

dumbass, they dont shoot u. they just stick a needle in u

Heh...how old are you? 12?

Kikizo Staff Writer

Well Fathoms, you had me going until your last sentence which was:

In short, you can both fu** off.

Incredibly unprofessional and again it makes you sound like a child. Then your very next post all you do is accuse the poster of being 12, with nothing to contribute at all. A blank post would be just as effective.

I am going to put you on my " Block" list. No, not because " I can' t handle the truths you post" or some such nonsense. But because I' m sick of reading your posts which generally never resolve much and only attempt to agrue with everyone. Let' s face it, you LOVE to argue. In my opinion, your constantly insulting posts bring down the overall quality if these forums. Don' t you in some way also represent Kikizo? I could be wrong about that, but I thought you contributed to the official portion of the site somehow. If so, your constant need to insult others whom you don' t like really makes Kikizo look horrible. I' m not gonna stoop to your level and tell you to f**k off, though. What the hell good would that do? None.

BLOCKED!

i agree joe

and if i am 12, thats better than being a middle-aged man with no life, no wife and no prospects. overall, fathoms, being 12 is better than being ur age.

and by the way, its 14. close guess, but even if i am younger, i still have more f***ing common sense then u do

Joe: Good riddance. You' ve been useless ever since you showed up.

Jonah: 14? Christ...just what we need. More children.

Kikizo Staff Writer

children? children are innocent.

I love this game when i first brought it i couldn' t stop playing it . It was a nice change from all the other sort of games i' d played.