Forza 2 vs GT5 graphics dissected

Over the past few days I' ve been studying the latest screenshots of GT5 and comparing them to screenshots of Forza 2 (as well as studying Forza 2 for myself on the 360).

I just thought i' d share my conclusions as to what makes GT5 (unfortunately but admittedly) look more photorealistic than Forza 2.

1) GT5 has more pronounced self-shadowing on the cars. The shadow maps are crisper than in Forza 2.

2) There is less bloom effect on the cars in GT5 compared to Forza 2. (how often do you see bloom lighting on ESPN broadcasts anyway right?)

3) There is more ambient light on the cars in GT5 (light coming from the sky and other surroundings apart from the sun). Forza has very high contrast lighting, so the dark parts are really dark while the bright parts are in bloom.


First i' d like to get one thing out of the way, just because i think GT5 looks more photorealistic than Forza 2 doesn' t mean that Forza 2' s graphics aren' t good in their own right. The main difference is that Forza 2 looks like pre-rendered CG, which is never a bad thing, but GT5 has everything set in the right place to make it look photo-ish. So it' s just a question of how the artists chose to approach the style (or it could be that Polyphony' s artists still have the edge over most other game artists).

In a nutshell, i could say that GT5 looks like an ESPN broadcast, while Forza 2 looks like a commercial for Volvo or something.

On a sidenote, i' ve always considered the PGR series to be closer to the look of the GT series than Forza. Now if only PGR4 would be 60fps, that would be more than a match for GT5.

But everyone already knows Forza 2 looks like shit...

Thats why I play DiRT for visual racing ecstasy.

Every raciong game ever made is a joke in every respect compared to PGR4. No one should be talking about racing games untill this is released.

Every raciong game ever made is a joke in every respect compared to PGR4. No one should be talking about racing games untill this is released.

PGR isn' t a true racing sim by a long shot.

For those of us who love nothing more than a high quality wheel and the best sim out there, it just doesn' t cut it. I like PGR' s, but I would never try and say they make other racing games, and racing sims at that, unnescesary.

For example. Majik loves PGR and Motorstorm, but doesn' t enjoy Forza or GT a lot.

I on the other hand love Gran Turismo and Forza 2, and only enjoy motorstorm and PGR in smaller doses.

PGR isn' t a true racing sim by a long shot.

For those of us who love nothing more than a high quality wheel and the best sim out there, it just doesn' t cut it. I like PGR' s, but I would never try and say they make other racing games, and racing sims at that, unnescesary.

For example. Majik loves PGR and Motorstorm, but doesn' t enjoy Forza or GT a lot.

I on the other hand love Gran Turismo and Forza 2, and only enjoy motorstorm and PGR in smaller doses.

This thread is graphics nothing else.

RollCage pawns all racers!

I dont like GT that much at all. I could never understand why its labeled as a driving simulator when you have to pratically stop to turn..

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

Agree with you there silent.

As for the visuals, GT5 looks very nice at the moment, but the backgrounds need some serious work, and the reflections in mirrors needs moving beyond commodore 64 gfx - But then it' s work in progress, i' m sure they will do well.

Prefer more arcadey racers myself.

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

I always liked Carmageddon when it came to simulators

I dont like GT that much at all. I could never understand why its labeled as a driving simulator when you have to pratically stop to turn..

Because thats how real cars work. They don' t magically grip in off camber corners at 120mph or negate the effects of weight transfer and load shuffling when going through a chicane.

It is possible to go extremely fast in sims, you just need to know how to drive.

I could drift the majority of Deep Forest Raceway anywhere from 50mph to 80mph in an MR2 turbo with street tires. If you want to grip drive and nail the apex' s you could a RUF CTR2 or a Mercedes 190 cossie build and take the same corners twice as fast.

Another thing nobody talks about is the ability to fine tune a cars setup. Not just throwing parts at it, but actually changing the suspension settings, dialing in different camber for certain courses, or changing toe to suit your driving style.

I' m sure a lot of that doesn' t interest the majority of people, but sims have a hardcore following, and the community behind them are some of the most open and helpful people around. The setups some people come up with are amazing. For example, I tuned a 350hp 4 door mercedes to slap the crap out of of a roughly tuned 950hp Zonda, on the Nurburgring, Laguna Seca and many other courses.

Will GT5 run at 60 fps?

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ORIGINAL: Silentbomber

I dont like GT that much at all. I could never understand why its labeled as a driving simulator when you have to pratically stop to turn..

I prefer arcadey racers for the same reason. If it' s gonna be fake it might as well be fun. The GT series is like someone took a good racer and decided to give it a extra helping of tedium. Like an arcade racer with crappy response time.

GT always looks spectacular though, with PGR coming in a close second, IMO. I expect the same this generation.

I think F-Zero and WipeOut looks waaay better than any other racing game. They' re not photo realistic or anything but the imagination they' ve put in the design is just incredible.

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ORIGINAL: ginjirou

Will GT5 run at 60 fps?

1080p and yes, 60fps

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

ORIGINAL: ginjirou

I think F-Zero and WipeOut looks waaay better than any other racing game. They' re not photo realistic or anything but the imagination they' ve put in the design is just incredible.

That' s a good point. Artistic design goes a long way.

1080p and yes, 60fps

Those factors doesnt make a game good looking.

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

In the past, I' ve always much preferred arcade racers. But I' ve been having a great time with Forza 2, especially using the racing wheel. It is just tapping into a different kind of challenge, and it makes completing a lap perfectly feel really satisfying. It only took me a little while to get over my leadfoot, reckless arcade tendencies.

The most interesting thing to me is that it' s improved my arcade racing skills as well. Definitely looking forward to PGR4. Although I' m curious about how well the wheel will work with it. My outlook right now is that the wheel is best for sims, and the pad is better for arcade racers.

OT, it is definitely the lighting that is the most pronounced difference between GT5 and Forza 2.

Ok now i know it' s really just an artist issue with the graphics of both games. Because i looked at screenshots of GT4, and i must say everything is less detailed, but the lighting is exactly like GT5, spot on! photoreal!

BTW it' s confirmed that PGR4 is going to be 30fps, http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14678

Which is really, quite heartbreaking for me. (but i' ll probably buy it, because in case racing games start becoming 60fps again, at least i' ll have a novelty item in PGR4 because 30fps with motion blur is like watching a film.

Oh but TOCA is still on the way! Yess TOCA has never been 30fps nooo, TOCA is my friend... my Friend....

I' ll take GT-HD/GT5 over FMS2 any given day.
Here' s my take.
GTHD has a photoreallistic looks that is just outstanding, I' d play the demo almost every day, in the drift mode that is, the replay is tight. Car model is just lifelike and backround is jaw-dropping.
FMS2, looks to cartooney, and really tries to hard to show-off, I had purchase the game since day one, and about a couple of weeks I just didn' t bother to play it any more, I even bought the FMS2 360 face plate.

For me graphic is not really all that, because if it is FMS2 would have been my choice, but GT to me is all the way.

I thought Forza had some unrealistic, but cool graphics.
But then I watched the videos of the real tracks that I posted in an old Forza thread and I realised that Forza 2 has really captured the look of racing. It' s not photo realistic, but it looks like racing. It looks the way it feels. You probably don' t get my pointbut whatever, you' ll get over it.

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It is possible to go extremely fast in sims, you just need to know how to drive.

I could drift the majority of Deep Forest Raceway anywhere from 50mph to 80mph in an MR2 turbo with street tires. If you want to grip drive and nail the apex' s you could a RUF CTR2 or a Mercedes 190 cossie build and take the same corners twice as fast.

I know these games take skill and time to learn, something which I never invested with these games. I can drive in real life, And sometimes I feel thats more arcadey than GT. I know its not ' PETAL TO TEH METAL!!!11' it feels as if the cars are stuck to the road.

well, thats after completeing the GT' Hd concept demo way back then. Havent played it since, altough I did download the top speed ghost to race against and see how they done it, in short, I dont know how.

Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

To me the environments in Forza 2 are really good. If there' s a graphical leap that i noticed from Forza 1 to Forza 2, it' s the environments. It' s good that they paid close attention to making the environments as detailed as possible. Sure they' re real racetracks and may look sparse at times compared to the likes of PGR3, but the key to photorealism isn' t filling the screen with so much bustling activity, but rather, to NOT put anything that doesn' t look real, like for instance sometimes a textureless building can look more photoreal than a building with a lowres texture if it' s lit properly.

One of my favorite tracks graphically in Forza 2 is Laguna Seca.

Take a look at these real life videos from racing on these tracks:
(click to watch, right-click and " save as" to download)

Mugello
Mugello again
and again

Nurburgring
Nurburgring 2
Scary drifting in the Ring
The ring again
and again
and... again

It looks just like that in Forza 2. The same feeling, the same movement, similar light, same track design, everything is just done right in Forza 2. It' s goddamn perfect OK!
I don' t care if GT5 looks more realistic, it doesn' t look " right" .

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Ginjirou, do u mean by any chance that forza 2 looks more realistic or better than GT5 ?

It does not look more photo realistic than GT5 but it has captured the real look of a racing view IMO.
If that' s better or not is up to personal preference. If you like things to look exactly the way they would on a picture then GT5 is the best. If you want to capture the " feeling" of racing then Forza 2 looks better.
That' s why Forza 2 might look like some ad for a car manufacturer or something.

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Playing = Believing