ORIGINAL: QuezcatoL

You know he wets the bed right?

Who needs either Metal Gear Solid or Ghost Recon? Both of them suck.

Joe, I agree with you on most things, I think your a good member, with fascinating posts and then some.



Now I think your an Evil Bastard. Out to Destory all modern gaming.

I agree with Zoy here (although I think MGS is great). Playing though R6: Vegas at the moment, and the soldiers vs terrorists thing is really getting old. It doesn' t feel like a real life situation at all Vx. In real war, innocent people die and the good guys aren' t all that great.

If you wanna create a good action flic or game, you' ve gotta at least have some good lines in it, like Die Hard or Predator! Ghost Recon and R6 are like those classic action films without the classic lines/moments, and all you' re left with is the guns and explosions and bad acting.

As a game it works as mindless entertainment, cos shooting people is fun as long as it' s not real right? But if you expect realism or social commentary, don' t look to Tom.

I played interstate 76, you shoot people in that game right? So wheres the difference?

That' s a good question, and I think the difference is that the story of Interstate ' 76, if you play all the way through, actually ends up being about the scarcity of, and our dependence upon, oil. So, it was an entertaining and atmospheric game, but it also had a story that could cause people to question why we are so dependent upon oil and whether or not that' s a good thing.

The difference with Clancy games is it' s just this knee-jerk " our American way of life is under attack" so you' re just the ultimate flag-wavin' badass out to save the day. It doesn' t really challenge any preconceptions.

Clancy games set up a scene in the games that could actually mirror things that are happening in the real world.

See, I think that' s a nice illusion but it' s ultimately a big lie. What is actually happening in the real world is that soldiers are being sent into situations without proper protection, without an adequate plan, and lots of them are coming home maimed and finding that their veterans' benefits have been cut by the same people who sent them out there to begin with. So the Clancy games actually set up a realistic-looking version of something similar to the real world, but never do anything to refer to real-world consequences. That' s beyond the realm of just entertainment and begins to verge on distraction, if not outright deception.

It' s not that I' m against all violence in entertainment. I just think the subject should be handled in such a way that it is thought-provoking. Ultimately that just means better storylines.

zoy,those games arn' t consider some of the best games ever made,or atleast top 50.

Yeah, I know... I would put them in my personal top 50 though.

As for people being shocked at me not playing the MGS series, I will get around to playing it at some point. I' ve heard enough people whose opinions I respect to believe it' s among the best, and has some very interesting metaphorical aspects to its story that refer to the real world. But Clancy will never get a dime from me.

Pah, GRAW made Game of the Year, it doesn' t need any hippies like you guys playing it anyway.

*spilling patchouli oil on Majik' s Clancy stash*

Your view of the world is naive and kinda pathetic, you want to see America as the big bad wolf when there are really tons of countries there are worse.

Just be glad USA is the worlds only super power and it isnt North Korea, and rather have the blood of a few underdeveloped countries under my feet, than have mine under theirs.

If you havent played a Clancy game, dont comment on them please! you have no idea!

How does one Quote? I wanted to say " Me too" to some guy' s Post back there..The other page I mean.

GRAW 2 looks good, I have no experience from the first since I don' t own a 360 (Pity me!), but I' m very interested in this one.

Your view of the world is naive and kinda pathetic, you want to see America as the big bad wolf when there are really tons of countries there are worse.

I happen to be an American, and a real patriot isn' t afraid to criticize his country, because he loves his country and wants to see it become better. America is over-run by jingoistic toadies and yes-men who think they' re patriots, but they' re the ones who are naive and pathetic. And that' s why they got their asses handed to them on the November 7th election.

If you havent played a Clancy game, dont comment on them please! you have no idea!

I' m not making any comments on their technical quality, I' m commenting on the story and worldview espoused by all Tom Clancy projects, games and otherwise, which is readily obvious.

If you haven' t enlisted and fought in combat, who are you to comment on the " realism" of these games?

I' m not making any comments on their technical quality, I' m commenting on the story and worldview espoused by all Tom Clancy projects, games and otherwise, which is readily obvious.

If you haven' t enlisted and fought in combat, who are you to comment on the " realism" of these games?

Again you fail to see the point, first of all, you might be american but your still pathetic, no one here likes GWB, but thats not at all the point.

I wasnt refering to the realism in combat in the games but in the realism in the stories and settings, take the original Rainbow Six, a true classic and one of the best games ever made, its about a group of neo enviromentalists planning a terroriest attack which is to plant a bio weapon in the stadion in the year 2000 Olymbics, thus in one blow contaminating the whole world, i remember thinking, wow, thats actually possible.

In the first SC, its about stopping a suitcase nuke from harming civilians. You have no idea what your talking about!

" Neo-environmentalists." Bullsh#t. I have no idea what I' m talking about? I just played a benefit show last night to help with the legal defense fund of people accused of so-called environmental " terrorism."

People fighting to protect the environment from pollution, degradation and insane genetic engineering at the hands of corporations and governmental deregulation are classified as " terrorists" -- that' s the kind of lie that people like you swallow hook, line and sinker.

If you think Tom Clancy writes such fantastic stories, you should try reading some George Orwell some time. " 1984" and " Animal Farm" will give you some real " wow, that could really happen" goosebumps.

In fact, how about this, Vx. You agree to read " Animal Farm" by George Orwell, and I' ll play any Tom Clancy game you name for me. What do you say?

The difference with Clancy games is it' s just this knee-jerk " our American way of life is under attack" so you' re just the ultimate flag-wavin' badass out to save the day. It doesn' t really challenge any preconceptions.

I' ve read and played both. The original Splinter Cells are very " save the American way" but double agent, (just got it yesterday) has some very thought provoking choices for you to make. It almost makes you compromise your morals for the " common good" , which is very suprising for a game.

I hope to god that we never get to the point where war is fully realised in a game. There' s no need to see war in its full reality in the real world, no less the digital.

both of them are really great but I think there is a big difference between them so we shouldn' t compare this games.But it' s only my opinion ;).

MGS is more of a sensationalized story, that is true. Clancy games are more " technically real" you could say.

Zoy, I' m most definitely not taking sides in this, but I do see where you are coming from, as well as where VX is. There is no right or wrong side here. As for good political insight, " Animal Farm" is great, but I would recommend " 1984" . It' s much more thought provoking and will make you question the moral of doing a " little bit of wrong" to do " a lot of good" .

In fact, how about this, Vx. You agree to read " Animal Farm" by George Orwell, and I' ll play any Tom Clancy game you name for me. What do you say?

Animal farm has nothing to do with this discussion, you take fiction all to seriously. Play or read the original Rainbow Six, and you might see and understnad that it doesnt really compare much to the Harrison ford movies, in another note, Tom Clancy has hardly touched the SC games and has nothing to do with them except inspiration.

I dont see what your grief is with the games, as you believe they are full of lies, but they are merely fiction and lies a lot less to you than Quake 4 of Zelda for instance

The Clancy games opt for more realism in the way they are played and the visual styles than fx. Metal Gear, which is the Zelda of sneak games.

You might not like the Tom Clancy movies, but unless you have played the games, your not fit to comment on whether they are good or not, or even what they are about.

Its kinda sad how you like your conspiration theories, you probably signed something that says you believe GWB was behind 11/9 or something.

Its just a game thats fun, now chill the f%#! out!

Yes,i laugh at these democrats,now remember,me and VX isn' t from USA,we are from scandivia and probably more liberal then you guys.

But look at this ...



Clinton adminstraion celebrating with one of the worse dictator ever,well gj morons.
This is what i means,CLinton was a fucking retarded so was his gov.

Now with that said,im trying to get a point here,and that is?

Even if you didnt have bush America would be hated all over the world,it doesnt matter if you have bush or not,im not one of these haters,but when you think you agreeing with some people over at europe and their hate for bush,its not bush they hate its america,and its alwayts has been no matter what guy you select.
The rest of the world has a hate for america,or a jeoulsy that will never stop,and some lib/democrats are dumb enough to think its bush fault.

You was hated with CLinton,which i hated like hell.

Taking a blowjob in office from a prakticant and claim he understand women righhts. lol.



opps back to topic.

Whatever you like or not,Tom clany games has been some of the best looking games with great controler and great A.I.

If you dislike the gametyp just say so,but those games has always been top notch.

Animal farm has nothing to do with this discussion, you take fiction all to seriously.

You know what, that' s absolutely right. There' s no point in comparing Orwell to Clancy, they have nothing in common and their readers don' t either. I' m satisfied that we have no respect for each other' s taste in gaming or literature.

I' ll chill out and let this get back on topic.

You dont know whether its your taste in gaming since you havent played one of the games, and im pretty sure you never read anything either!

We' re not talking Greenpeace, or Save the Whale here, ...we' re talking about people who' s intent was to use an deadly infectious virus - one that caused prolonged pain and suffering befor death - to kill 98% of the worlds population.

The original Rainbow Six book is Clancy' s best work, and its far from his usual patriotic stuff. It' s definitely a good read, and this is coming from somebody who has a shelf dedicated to William Shakespeare (i had to have them for school and never got rid of them).

Somebody wanted innocent people to die, for the violence to be " realistic" ??? Ok, loking specifically at the next-gen games:

GRAW - Bud, the helicopter pilot and Scott Mitchell' s friend is executed on camera. The Canadian Prime Minister is killed, and attempts are made on both the Mexican and American Presidents in a huge coup de' ta by Mexican revolutionaries backed by parts of the military.

Double Agent - In the very first mission you witness a new recruit executed during gameplay. After the mission has finished Sam finds out his daughter has been killed in a car accident. He undertakes a mission whereby he gets sent to prison in order to infiltrate a terrorist group name John Browns Army and througout the rest of the game he has missions to complete for both sides. The missions often conflict one another and failing to complete one will directly affect a trust meter. You' ll be asked to kill innocent people and blow up a cruise ship filled with innocent civilians and innocent soldiers. There are more things but Eddie will be reading this and he has only just bought the game so i' ll stop here.

Vegas - You see a friend die, hostages executed, buildings blown up, witness dead bodies all over the place etc. It' s very American but it' s not all " good guys prevail" nonsense.

My biggest problem with Splinter Cell and some parts of MGS, as well as many other games, is that they are in various ways glorifying violence, regardless of the games political agenda.
Sure it' s entertainment, but even entertainment affects our judgement.
I' m glad that the MGS series takes a stand against violence through it' s storyline despite the game forcing you to use violence throughout the games.
I' ve played Splinter Cell and those are good games but they don' t have the same anti-violent approach as MGS.
I don' t know if you guys think violence is a good thing, but I sure don' t.
I agree with Zoy for most of the parts but I do however find him a little stubborn, especially if he doesn' t even want to give the Splinter Cell series a chance.