Hey all. New to the kikizo forums but have been going here for my video game needs quite often lately specially for PS3/Xbox/Revolution news and videos since the console wars are back again and it' s the best time for them to show their guns. Anyways I to get to the point this post is about RPG' s..

I started playing Zelda as my first rpg(Some people argue it' s not an RPG. Just put action before rpg and you got zelda.) Liking the flow of the game I went to pick up Chrono Trigger. Awesome story, great set of characters, fighting system, almost everything was perfect with the game. After that came Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy series and so forth leading to Suikoiden, Wild Arms and such. Today I picked up my copy of Kingdom Hearts 2.

Anyways enough history.

My main point is after playstation...RPG' s in my point of view have been going down. Stories are mediocore, I either stop in the middle of the game not engrossed by it and not really feeling the need to continue the game. Fighting systems are soo bland with no unique skills per character and such in most new games. Everybody can learn EVERYTHING and no uniqueness is brought to the character not to mention since everybody can learn everything that means that no backround story could be made about their fighting techniques and styles nor how they came about learning that, no room for improvement either, no masters out in the world to teach the character or lessons learned. They are just good from the beggining they pick up a sword...What? . No striving to learn certain skills and the stories make it so linier now that there is no side story to get a certain armor piece, skill, or weapon that really makes you strive for it.

Remember those big maps in Xenogears and Final Fantasy 7 where there were soo many places to go and the map changed as you progressed in the story? No more of those because of the linier systems they have now. Sure the games have become more beutiful but there' s nothing that makes you go " WOAH!" story and gameplay wise or cinematic scenes. The stories have seemed to be good at the beggining then let you down at the end or let you down in the biggining and hype it up towards the end but never leaving you satisfied. The flow is not smooth, too bumpy.

Mostly every RPG I' ve played now, I have been left with a hunger for better and more old school type of approach on RPG' s. Even old school games can be made better in new but then we get the flamers that go " This game is like that one! it' s just copying it!" Then the game, even though it' s good, get' s lost in the noise. Like Legend of Dragon....Soo final fantasy 7 right? But was it good? I liked it, great story, it held itself respectively. Remove your bias and enojoy all the games! :P

Also bad guys and good guys. Getting into the bad guys and good guys story where you actually ended up liking one side or another, sometimes even both. Now I actually find myself hating both sides because of their stupidity. What happened to the Bad Ass Mo Fo Bad guys and the Good guys they messed around with in the story? Or the Good guy that was actually falling towards evil and wasn' t a goody goody with reasons to back everything up and how you would agree if he fell towards evil or the ones that made you feel bad for killing the bad guy even though he had a good reason to do what he was doing. Every character now seems to be a little 12 year old going through ' drama' . It' s annoying. No maturity in these characters. Also what' s missing is story for both which either explains why they do certain things and such. No..." I' m gonna rule the world!" or..." I' m gonna let out this evil" ....geez...do you even have a reason why you are doing what you are doing? And a good story to back up your damn reason!...

Last but not least is....What the hell is up with all the games sorrounding islands and water...soo much water...Travel here by water...travel there by water. It get' s annoying when there are no sights but nice blue wavy water....yay. Geez. I' m sick of all the RPG' s having to do with boats and small linier islands where the dungeon or whatever place you are exploring is soo damn small. One is enough.

Ok so my explantions on why I' m getting mad at the new RPG' s might take a bit to read through all that junk writting (Sorry I' m not a great writter) But for those mad out there from not getting that hunger satisfied with a good RPG hopefully understand where i' m coming from. I just wanted to share because it' s been bothering me for a bit now. Also the discussion is open to dissagreement, but please give me good reasons, not..." You suck, this game is good and better then any game out there." But please hold spoilers to games that are as good as claimed. Can you really convince me that some games now are as good as before? Please post.

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I consider games like Chrono trigger,and ff7 and Ob to be among equals,whats wrong with that?

Sadly with next gen some dev care for graphic more then gameplay/ story just to have people buy their titles.
But im sure ff13 and Lost odyssey will please us all.
And no,it wasn' t better before,however the enjoyment you got from playing such a incredible game as ff6 and ct for years ago,hardly reach me today,but games are so much more today.

WOW, ...WE' VE CERTAINLY HAD AN AWFUL LOT OF NEW USERS THIS PAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

HOW STRANGE.

PROBABLY U SHOULD SUXY MY COXY FOXY DOCTOR :D

Have you tried Skies of Arcadia/Eternal Arcadia (Dreamcast)
Skies of Arcadia Legends (Gamecube)?

I think there are too many people trying to make RPGs
as opposed to making a good RPG.

I think in the they had to focus on better mechanics in rpgs of the past
but now a lot of them seem to just being flashy.

Oh some of these battle system innovations...well just.. the HECK!

They may get a good or somewhat battle system but then
they mess the other stuff up
I think since Rpgs are long and often repetitive(lol) they need to
get more right in story and battle system and graphics can' t be poor.

but I Recommend:
Shining Force 1-2 (Genesis){ Strategy RPG (SRPG)}
Shining Force 3 (Sega Saturn)(SRPG)
Shining The Holy Ark (Sega Saturn )
{ Fights like a regular turn based RPG in First person perspective}
more Shining Force games and Shining Wisdom maybe
I like Shining Force Neo so far
I know it wont get better than 3
Sega Saturn RPGs check www.rgpfan.net for a lot of rpgs
don' t trust all of their reviews though judge by your taste
Skies of Arcadia has to be mentioned again
Shenm...
Let me stop that

They are trying to be to flashy nowadays
and forgetting make more important parts good

Last but not least is....What the hell is up with all the games sorrounding islands and water...soo much water...Travel here by water...travel there by water. It get' s annoying when there are no sights but nice blue wavy water....yay. Geez. I' m sick of all the RPG' s having to do with boats and small linier islands where the dungeon or whatever place you are exploring is soo damn small. One is enough.

That sounds like Wind Waker which I like (but then on a Suikoiden 4... I think)
Those Island were to small for my explorative personality

Skies of Arcadia travel by the Sky lol the areas are not
as small but that is in over world map style

I could recommend more but... why

Have you tried Skies of Arcadia/Eternal Arcadia (Dreamcast)
Skies of Arcadia Legends (Gamecube)?

That was probably one of the best RPG' s because it was so different, I tried
playing Final Fantasy, but they all just seem like giant movies I love the story
but feel that the gameplay is too repetitive for my liking. (love the ship battles
in Skies of Arcadia)

RPG' s have lost it?
?
??
??
?

Since Shenmue, I have had this big gaping hole in me that almost makes me
disappear.

Have they lost it truly though? All was lost until Oblivion came out, the game is
too free. But none the less saves the 3 or 4 years of RPG famine we have had.

Someone please announce Shenmue 3, then I can go back to my grave...

I would agree that many RPG' s nowadays are pretty hit and miss, but there are still good ones coming out. One I' m particularly looking forward to is Phantasy Star Universe. Online AND offline RPG...sounds like a good deal to me! Always liked the old ones, so I' m being fairly optimistic.

Since Shenmue, I have had this big gaping hole in me that almost makes me
disappear.

When Shenmue 2 landed in my hands after all this love I' ve had for first one , I had no idea it will crush it...simply crush it.

I know exactly how you feel cause any game after shenmue is just " fun" - Oblivion may be cool , MGS7 could get back to it' s roots and be amazing , but no title will ever be that deep , spiritual , full of emotions , almost REAL adventure.

Shenmue ....is it a game? ...it' s seems more lke something I' ve been through...I' ve never had " memories" from games before - only memories about playing them.

FF12 from what I' ve seen and www.1up.com has some great long gameplay movies , looks to be what FF7 was before it.

Grandia 3 is what grandia always was - best RPG gameplay (battle system and so on) with mediocre story and best looking graphics on PS2.
If you don' t like the battle system of JRPGs you should definitely check this one.

Still I also feel that something' s wrong with the genre - I wish they made some amazing 2d suikoden with beautiful HD 2D visuals.

I think that average RPG games have always sucked. Only a few RPGs have had what it takes to be an extraordinary game. It' s not something that' s happened lately.
I believe that what we are seeing now is that respected RPG series, with high expectations among gamers, are getting decreasing quality. Simply because the developers are confident in the old formula since it worked back in the old days. The developers take a look at what has been a success in the past and use it in the new games. And as long as the games sells, they really don' t have to care what hardcore gamers think.
Thankfully there are still some great RPG series and I' m looking forward to what new RPG series there will be for the next-gen.

Shenmue ....is it a game? ...it' s seems more lke something I' ve been through...I' ve never had " memories" from games before - only memories about playing them.

That' s true, I always saw Shenmue as paying £40 for another life, and nothing could compare to Shenmue 2 except a Hong Kong trip through Lunn Poly.
Where has the RPG experience gone?
Probably the closest thing I have played as of late that seems as if they have put
a bit of feeling into it is Shadow of The Colossus:
The large enemies and the horse and the vast field were simple ingredients but
made good fun...

Still nothing tops Shenmue, Lost Odyssey may provide the energy bar I need to
keep me going until Shenmue 3 though..

Shining Force 1-2 (Genesis){ Strategy RPG (SRPG)}
Shining Force 3 (Sega Saturn)(SRPG)
Shining The Holy Ark (Sega Saturn )
{ Fights like a regular turn based RPG in First person perspective}
more Shining Force games and Shining Wisdom maybe

SF1,2, and 3. definitely. (Slade the Ninja, best character ever)

Shining the Holy Ark, yup. Shining in the Darkness is the place to start though.


But Shining Wisdom....NOOOOOOOOOOOO. Not ever. Not even maybe. If I could, i would go back in time and destroy every copy of this game b4 it came out and tarnished my favorite RPG series with it' s lameness. Seriously, i love sega, but they' ve had some serious WTF moments...and this was one of them.



Ahh and while it' s in my head, I highly recommend Dragon Force(Saturn). I really wish somebody would make a sequel to it in this generation. Heck, I' d be happy with anything that had that type of gameplay.

Oblivion

I consider games like Chrono trigger,and ff7 and Ob to be among equals,whats wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with that. Two great games. If anybody asked me which one I liked best I would say both :P

Shining Force 1-2 (Genesis){ Strategy RPG (SRPG)}
Shining Force 3 (Sega Saturn)(SRPG)
Shining The Holy Ark (Sega Saturn )

Unfortunately I never really liked Sega except for Sonic but I never owned any of their systems. I should look them up now that they are cheap. Never played those.

That sounds like Wind Waker which I like (but then on a Suikoiden 4... I think)
Those Island were to small for my explorative personality

Yup. WindWaker was fun but I had to get around the water thing. It was annoying at first....actually it still is. Suikoiden 4 really got ruined because of the water. I stopped because it got too annoying.

To all the Shenmue fans out there I' ve never played that game. Dreamcast is another system I never owned.

To ginjirou' s comment I fully agree that the hardcore gamers are getting jipped. I' m also looking forward to what they are going to do in the next Gen consoles.

Soo many Sega fans in here.

Grandia 3 is what grandia always was - best RPG gameplay (battle system and so on) with mediocre story and best looking graphics on PS2.

Unfortunately this is true. I got into the gameplay but the story...geez. How could they not put a great story with great gameplay and graphics.

Still I also feel that something' s wrong with the genre - I wish they made some amazing 2d suikoden with beautiful HD 2D visuals.

Hell yea. That would rock.

Probably the closest thing I have played as of late that seems as if they have put
a bit of feeling into it is Shadow of The Colossus:
The large enemies and the horse and the vast field were simple ingredients but
made good fun...

I beat that game about 2 weeks ago. Geez what an awesome game. That' s the kinda feelings I got when playing the old school RPG' s right there. That is the best example I can give. If they have the power to do that on the playstation 2 I can' t wait for PS3 but if they can do that now there is soo much potential still on the ps2 for RPG' s yet we are getting some crappy ones. *Sigh* OH well.

Anybody liked Star Ocean, Till the end of time?

I think the root of all this ' blah' , ' meh' and ' ik' in the world of RPGs is the development team/company not willing to not get customers. If they stick to what they know, they can' t really lose. That is, until their consumers get bored and go to other companies...

...which end up turning out the same cookie cutter games as the first company, making the consumers think about whether or not it was so bad at company A and submitting to the ' blah' , ' meh' and ' ik' repectively. Then again you could say that the reason behind all that is a lack of fresh ideas, or under-utilisation of old good ideas.