Wii in and of itself is not innovative F3. Other than Zelda all the games on it are 5 minute gimmicky distractions. Im not flaming the big N, Im just stating that waving a controller around is fun for a little bit, but after that you start to want something deeper(which Zelda provides). As for your party things: who cares, when you get an all night caffeine fueled 16 person LAN and not 4 people taking turns waving a remote for a few hours then we can talk(Halo).

Honestly, Im not looking forward to too much on Wii (just Metroid, Mario, and SSB) or the PS3 (Im not a big Japanese game fan).

Innovative hardware, innovative software. Two different areas.
Nintendo has innovated hardware and adapted their software accordingly.
I think Nintendo has innovated gameplay as well but I wouldn' t say they are much better than Sony or Microsoft in that area.
Oh and Sega kicks ass!

As for your party things: who cares, when you get an all night caffeine fueled 16 person LAN and not 4 people taking turns waving a remote for a few hours then we can talk(Halo).

16 player what?? How many 360s need to be powered up for that..? sounds really practicle, thats gona catch on really good.. [Sacasm].. How many times are 360 fanboys gonna say " well this time this game will be the one" .. GOW is supposed to be the one?? yet ive 6 peeps round my house and not one is intersted, All want to challange on Wiisports.

First of all Mario Party sucks, that' s why no one is stealing the idea, only Nintendo is making the 10th mario party type game.

Mario party??? Where the hell did that come from? That wasnt even developed by Nintendo!! think before you post!

I have to say Nintendo is the worst one, the last innovative thing they did was make super Smash Bros

Lol, seriously.. youve been too stuck up MS arse to notice games and coming games like the following that in one way or another did things not seen before or played bwofe on their prespective nintendo plattfroms:

Nintendogs
Warioware
Animal Crossing
Wiisports
DS Metriod
rhythm tengoku
Mario Galaxy
Brain Taining
ETC,
ETC.

As for Wii' s popularity, this is due only because they have tapped into a new marketshare. This

Again your talkiing shit.. Remember the DS was the Uncool ' underdog' When it was announced compared with the ' Super Cool' PSP..

The main reason why DS started to kick PSP' s Ass was the Fact that its Games were Drawing in totally new audiences due to its innovate titles such as ' Nintedogs' , Touched, Braintraining ETC, ETC, ETC...

Wii is starting to do the exact same thing with Wii sports and sooon to come Wario Ware.

Nintendo has innovated hardware and adapted their software accordingly.
I think Nintendo has innovated gameplay as well but I wouldn' t say they are much better than Sony or Microsoft in that area.

Again, Taking shit.. ' Adapting software' ..??lol, get to the point your trying to aviod. " Making never seen before gamplay elements to draw new crowds"

Thank you.

Also, If you wanted to make a point or correction you should of told other posters that ' Milking Ip' s' and ' Innovate ideas' are two totally different things. That would of been the better choice.. (then that would be a plus for my argument and against theirs, you obviously wouldn’t want that and go against the 360 fanboy trend that seems to be in here)..

Also ' Better???' Anything’s better than ' Nothing' .. i cant think of a single game in the past few years from either MS or Sony studios that have been Innovate.


FAble 2 gonna be groundbreaking????

Shit.. you people never learn..
I remember when Fable 1 was expected to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.. LOL look how that ended up..

Too many people live a long dream.

And i cant even believe that im defending an argument on how much innovate Nintendos games are compared with MS or Sony, this is just absurd.

Nintendo > All EXCEPT SEGA

But F3, you' re a muppet and you talk more shit that Quez.

Seriously, only a muppet would agree, then not agree with someone at the same time.

Elaborate or Hush.

16 player what?? How many 360s need to be powered up for that..? sounds really practicle, thats gona catch on really good.. [Sacasm].

Yeah like fucking friend codes.

Nintendo are the lead innovators in the games industry, that' s true. Only SEGA were more innovative, ...Sony and Microsoft don' t even come close in terms of hardware.

However, Microsoft' s online service is better than any other consoles online service ever. Sony won' t match it and Nintendo aren' t interested in online gaming, and that is one of Nintendo' s biggest faults. Online gaming is no longer confined to PC gaming, Microsoft has made it work and have a proven service in place that will only get better.

But how innovative can software be?! Innovation in the games industry requires marrying hardware and software, ...say DDR, Nintendo DS or Eye Toy. Nintendo' s games, Microsoft' s games and Sony' s games aren' t innovative. Game my try new gameplay methods and in that case games like The Sims and Second Life are innovators, not fucking Zelda or Fable or even Nintendogs.

Nintendo are the best when it comes to introducing innovative hardware to the market, no doubt.
And to show people how this new hardware works they are good at adapting their software. Mario 64 showed how well the analog stick worked. Zelda OOT showed how well the rumble worked. Lots of games have showed how great the DS touch screen works. Metroid Prime 3 will probably show how amazing the wii-mote works.
But have Nintendo made much better innovation, than other companies, in any games when it comes to gameplay?
We' ve had party games before, we' ve had RPG' s, puppet simulators, FPS, adventure games, 3D-games, " mind" games, and so on, before Nintendo made it.
What Nintendo is good at is adapting gameplay to their hardware. With their hardware they take the gameplay to new heights.
But when it comes to the gameplay that is not related to the hardware Nintendo isn' t dominating. I mean, I still think they' re the best but other companies are doing great stuff in the area as well. So good in fact, that Nintendo can' t be seen as the obvious master when it comes to gameplay innovation.
What Nintendo gives is quality. Their innovation is often without any major flaws unlike some other attempts to innovate.
And Nintendo' s innovative hardware works with most types of games while other companies that makes dance mats, guitars or similar products only focuses on one genre.
That' s just the way I see it though.

EDIT: If you' re wondering how I can post just a few hours after new years eve the answer is simple: I don' t drink
Happy new year!

F3hunter I' ll give you Animal Crossing but the others you mentioned are a joke.

Majik wtf are you talking about Nintendo leading in hardware innovation? All they did was take a Gamecube make it s bit faster and add a special controller. The controller doesn' t make the console, it never has and it never will. It can' t even play DVDs for fucks sake...Nintendo has always been a bit retarded with hardware design. It is the single reason Sony has been raping them for the past 10 year. The N64 didn' t use CDs, the gamecube didn' t use DVDs and the Wii, my god. The wii is so far behind it' s direct competition in terms of hardware it makes me sick.

We all love Nintendo, I was raised by nintendo. I' ve spent more time with Mario 3 than I have with my real father. Nintendo was the King, the reason why the industry exists today. However I' m not 7 years old anymore, I' m 20 and I want something a little more challenging, maybe something a bit more intellectually satisfying than a fucking plumber fighting a giant lizard, something a bit more suitable than petting a virtual dog. I don' t even want to pet a real dog! Nintendo Dogs is for bitches!

As far as gaming is conserned I' ve evolved enough so that playing alone isn' t enough. If I' m not playing online, I' d rather not play at all. Online is the future, not the wiimote, not fucking bluray either. Bluray and the wiimote are not answers to the future of gaming. They are reflexes to their inadequacies. Nintendo and Sony know they have nothing to combat Live so they are trying to blind people with their shit so gamers are distracted from what makes gaming so great, because they know they can' t give it.

A videogame is a distraction from life. It' s an escape, but above all it' s a challenge. If you have played as much as me, you might be getting sick of playing against a static artificial AI. One of the reasons we get sick of a game so quickly is because we have mastered the game mechanics. Adept gamers have played enough games that we' ve reached a point where we can predict how the AI will react. There' s almost nothing about playing a game nowadays that isn' t routine, even if it' s a new game.

Personally I' m sick of being the hero for hire for these random adventures. Oh save this person, kill this monster, collect these things. WHY! We win nothing by saving the princess. Not a kiss not a blow job, nothing! We get nothing because the Princess, Bowser, the koopa Troopers, those fucking mushroom things and the rest are not real.

Beating them is as simple as solving a mathematical equation, which is exactly what we' re doing when we play against AI, just crunching numbers. And that' s what it feels like to me. I don' t even see videogame characters anymore, I see their AI routines.

The next logical step is playing against real people rather than pre-positioned AI. Real people are unpredictable because there are so many of them and they all act differentely.

True innovation in this point in time with videogames is making online play better. MS is the only one to even make the effort with this. Sony is too busy using the PS3 as a Trojan Horse with Bluray and CELL (expecting gamers to be sheep), while nintendo is trying to tap into untapped marketshare using a pricepoint and a gimick.

The word innovation is just a marketing word. In the very least we can all agree on this. A company cannot say they are innovative before the fact, and the fact comes after when everyone copies them. No one is going to copy the Wiimote or Cell and Bluray. Those things are not innovative. Live on the other hand is somethign that will be copied to best of the ablility of whoever.

Anyways I think I had more to say but I' m having a little trouble keeping my train of thought seeing as this is the 31st of Dec. I' m going to leave you guys with the best wishes for next year. And I need to go pass out somewhere.

Shoulder buttons, analog stick, rumble, interactivity between handheld and console, motion sensitivity, touch screen gaming, tilt function in certain GBA games etc. Nintendo create and others emulate and evolve.

The difference between then and now is a beautiful thing, is it not? My argument isn' t that Nintendo wasn' t innovative, it' s that they are not innovative now.

ORIGINAL: Agent Ghost

The difference between then and now is a beautiful thing, is it not? My argument isn' t that Nintendo wasn' t innovative, it' s that they are not innovative now.

They' re not doing anything now that hasn' t been done before. That' s true. They have been bold enough to force an unconventional controller on people though. The sad thing is that if Sony come up with a similar controller (not Sixaxis) then they could push Nintendo back into 3rd place again.

it' s that they are not innovative now.

This Wii im playing, this DS im playing.. ive played it all before..

Seriously, Nintendo have gone the opposite way of both MS/Sony, their games and hardware couldnt be more different.. Nintendo have never took such risks in their exsistance (apart from Virtual Boy)..

What the hell would have you preffered? 3 machine that do the same thing, to play mario 128 on the same Analogue PAd?? How Boring it would be if nintendo went that direction.. 3 Consoles doing the same thing...

Its since the DS, since Nintendo went all creative/ innovate Over Horsepower was when i really started respecting Nintendo.


I supposed theres a thin line between being extremely ' creative' and Innovate..

I Can see where people could differ in arguament..

I' m not saying Nintendo is not being creative, and i wouldn' t want them to take the same path as Sony and MS. I think they are now playing an important role to attract new gamers. But don' t give me this crap about innovation. That' s just marketing bullshit. It' s not true, they aren' t innovating anything worth talking about these days. Nintendo has an interesting idea with the controller and the price advantage, not much else above what they had going into this gen.

Nintendo has gone a completely different direction from what I' m interested in, Sony is just a mess, MS made the right decisions except their physical consoles are falling apart. I love my 360 but I know it' s a piece of shit, the thing is built on the lowest bitter. It has a 12$ disc drive that sounds like a jet engine and the thing can barely hold together. And that' s just one of the cheap parts out of hundreds that make the thing unreliable.

The fucking disc tray on my 360 doesn' t even want to open half the time and when it does the 360 still won' t turn on. Fucking hell, and that' s my 2nd 360. Piece of shit! I love the 360 and I hate it at the same time. PS3 and wii, even if they work I' m still not interested. At least the 360 is worth the trouble.

Oh and another thing, happy fucking new year!

The thin with me.. I fall in the ' growing out of video games' group, that now have been captured by Nintendo’s new marketing strategy..

If it wasn’t for the DS i would have given up on gaming all together (apart from VF and Threewave).

Im a really fussy git, i go on about the perfect framerates ETC.. The thing about me tho, is that i really did give the 360 a chance; I was really looking foward to it and even brought one fro EBay in the first week of release.

Its a ' solid' console wth some solid games, but nothing has really grabbed me, creatively.. (this is probably due to me being use to mostly Japanese Games, and already being hardcore at the very best western ones IE Quake 3).


Anyway. Happy new year!

Shoulder buttons, analog stick, rumble, interactivity between handheld and console, motion sensitivity, touch screen gaming, tilt function in certain GBA games etc. Nintendo create and others emulate and evolve.

They may have brought them to the forefront, but Nintendo did not create all of these.

stop with this bs that Nintendo is innovation,i say as one of the main writer in PC gamer,wii is a diffrent way to play games,nothing special about that just diffrent,you want innovation? get a pc,xbox360 or a ps3 only they have power to bring physic and gravitaion into nice gameplay.

with having some of the best graphics we ever seen.

It seems none of us here share the same definition of the word " innovation"

get a pc,xbox360 or a ps3 only they have power to bring physic and gravitaion into nice gameplay.

with having some of the best graphics we ever seen.

lol.. i dont know why but im reading this with a ' pluto' Voice in my mind.

Not even being able to sell my 360 on ebay is bad enough, but seeing it gather dust and being totally ignored due to freinds wanting to fire up the Wii instead is a nightmare.

It seems none of us here share the same definition of the word " innovation"

Thats true, I get the impression here that some of you think innovation means creative or new, while that isn' t true. its aspects of innovation but to be truly Innovative, you got to push the bar for other games at the same time, Mario 64 was innovative because nobody played a good 3d Platformer before, Zelda on Nes was innovative because it was one of the first games to have a massive map on which you could explore or do whatever you want, spitting on the face of the previous rpg games.

Not every game can Innovative and as the years go on, its getting harder.

Not every game can Innovative and as the years go on, its getting harder.

EXactly!

This is the main reason why Nintendo changed their handheld and Console, they wanted to see more innovation, they knew the only way to see this is get out of the norm..

Nintendo created these new platforms and created games to go with them..

In the same way that Mario 64 was a new way of playing 3d games, Wii sports is the new way of playing sports titles (and it certainly is alot better than before). In the same way that Zelda on the Nes gave you a big map, Nintendo Created the DS and made innovate titles that now let you play the game on one screen and see the whole map on another. Again this has not been done before..

When the PSP has a stylus and the next 360 uses motion sensors, youll start to see game play like current DS and Wii titles and then youll understand what i mean.

Just because MS and PS games cant physically copy Nintendo’s ideas from the Wii and DS is doesn’t not make them Innovative.. Infact Nintendo are soo far ahead of the pack, they are in their own league of innovation at the moment.