Look at the Ipod - there are better devices out there that have more features and are even cheaper, and yet people still see more value in the Ipod. Same thing applies to the Wii. Every ones interpretation of value is different. Had he phrased his comment as ' i think the Wii is a rip off' i wouldn' t have even commented. Thats his opinion and he is entitled too it. But When he tries to pass his opinions as fact, well i have every right to refute his claims.

If the Wii and its peripherals were considered a rip off to consumers NO ONE WOULD BUY IT - simple as that. However people are still buying it, apparently more so then the other 2 consoles, so DO people see value in it. I think to legitamise some peoples opinions they consider the general consumer as too stupid to think for themselves and buy things due to hype alone, and not because its something they actually want or desire (which is how they explain the Wii' s success). To bad this is not true. Consumers know what they want, more so then some people here give them credit for. Too bad ' those' people here can' t accept that.

As for 360 & Ps3, i hear in the US that HD penetration is around 20%. That means for the other 80% the HD feature will largely be irrelevant to the majority of gamers. Why would a Family with a SD TV spend US$50 (360 core) upto US$350 (ps3 80gb) more (compared to the Wii at US$250) for something they will not recieve and extra benefit from. In other words HD is a WASTE OF MONEY to these people - they get no extra value from it. So the same arguement can be applied to the other 2 consoles as well.

As for controllers the Classic controller isn' t necessary but yes it does add to the cost if your want a full set of controllers. The Wiimote+Nunchuk combination is expensive compared to the competitors but considering the amount of control you get its worth it (IMO). You get 2 twice the motion control of the ps3 controller plus rumble funtionality plus pointer capabilities for only US$10 more then a 360 controller. Its not bad all things considered.

Finally you hit the nail on the head - games. Games is what gives the console its real value!

15$, dood ;) XBox 360 Wirelss costs 45$

And well, as I already mentioned enough, I was solely talking about the console and from a technical point of view it' s simply a rip-off. I dont really see how you can argue with that. It' s like buying a Volkswagen for 25.000 if you could get a Mercedes for 40.000. You can mention consumers as much as you want - from a technical point of view it is and will stay a rip-off. You can' t put spin on that.

And well do you really think that mother looking to buy her son a present does really care to compare the consoles? No, she doesn' t. So in the consumers eyes the Wii isn' t a rip off because they don' t really know about the other consoles. And you also shouldn' t forget the price. Being significantly cheaper than Sony and Microsoft surely contributes to the sales, too. To refer my earlier example: If people could choose between a Volkswagen and Mercedes, most people would choose the Mercedes. But people don' t, because they either can' t afford it or are not willing to shell out that amount of money, no matter how much better the Mercedes is.

And I think your Ipod example isn' t a really good one because in this case Ipod is actually one of the most expensive competitors on the market (compared to, for example, Creative MP3 players which beat Apple in almost every category ANDare cheaper). It still sells like sliced bread so I think in this case [Ipod] I think we can say it sells because of hype. Ipod has become a household name for MP3 players and most people simply don' t care to compare because they don' t know shit about music players anyway. Get the things thats so heavily advertised on TV and be happy about it.

NO ONE WOULD BUY IT

Uh no, people get ripped off all the time. People paid millions for machines that promissed to turn sand into gold (true story). People buy Crosses to wear around their necks, people buy lucky rabbit feet. People buy bottled water. People buy American cars. My mom paid 50$ last year to see a psychic (against my advice), she came back feeling stupid because she saw that she was clearly full of shit.

People get ripped off all the time, you have no reasoning ability. If it can' t be considered a rip off if someone buys it then no one would ever get ripped off by your logic.

Do you know how much people pay for eye drops (salt water, the most abundant resource on the planet) in the US? Like 60 bucks for a tiny bottle, but people pay for it all the time. A rip off is when you pay too much for something. It happens when someone scams you.

The reason Wii is a rip off is because with the amount that Console makers make from 50$+ games they shouldn' t make any profit initially from the hardware. It' s expected for a console manufacturer to invest in the development of the console so that it' s a step up from last gen and it follows the natural order for technology, moores law and all that shit. Because that' s what we' re supposed to be paying for, chips. 280$CAD for a Wii!? Why!? What the hell are gamers paying for? I know it doesn' t cost nearly that much to make the damn things. MS and Sony both made an investment for the technology, Nintendo did not. They took the parts from GC and tacked on a new controller, they' re ***ing cheap, and they' re ripping us off.

As for Wii sales. Nintendo is enjoying a huge price advantage, and the fact that most people buying it don' t know what they' re paying for, they expect it to be close to the competition, but it' s not. I can understand why Wii would appeal to hardcore Nintendo fans and new gamers but it' s still a ***ing RIP OFF, weather they know it or not.

I still have more fun with games I buy for the previous generation of consoles than for the next-gen consoles. This means: power of the hardware means nothing. Developers are becoming dumber and dumber, believing that as long as their games look good they' re great games. But that' s wrong, they need to make the games interesting by changing the gameplay and adding new ideas. More powerful hardware won' t do it, a Wii-mote won' t do it. THEY have to do it. The developers have put too much faith in the hardware I believe.

15$, dood ;) XBox 360 Wirelss costs 45$

Hmm i thought the 360 controllers were US$50. Oh well my mistake but the amount of control you get from the Wiimote+ Nunchuk combo still pretty good

And well, as I already mentioned enough, I was solely talking about the console and from a technical point of view it' s simply a rip-off. I dont really see how you can argue with that. It' s like buying a Volkswagen for 25.000 if you could get a Mercedes for 40.000. You can mention consumers as much as you want - from a technical point of view it is and will stay a rip-off. You can' t put spin on that.

Again, let me stress value depends entirely on the individual consumer. Since your using car analogies i' ll use one. Lets say the 360/ps3 is a high performance sports car that goes really fast and the Wii is your normal family sedan. Sure theoretically speaking the sports car even at its higher price provides more power & speed & thus more ' value' , but this etra speed & power has absolutely NO value in busy city streets (SD TV). Sure when the sports car is on a race track (HD TV) it can' t be beat, but face it most of the time the car will be on City roads (SD TV) were its grunt will not prove any real advantage. The Family Sedan on the other hand is affordable and adequately does its job on City Streets, sure on the race track its toast but for the most part it will be on City Streets only so its alright.

Let me stress considering that 80% of US Consumers DON" t have HD TVs the extra cost of a HD capable 360 or ps3 provide absolutely NO extra value to the consumer compared to the Wii. This is not spin its fact.

Besides in your definition of Value you forget the value the motion control only the Wii provides which no other platform can offer.

Also note that though the ps3 you pay less then it costs to make, you will eventually be paying that back to sony one way or another. Make no mistake Sony intends on making a profit of the ps3, if they are not going to get it from the console itself it will come from somewhere else. Even Microsoft intend the 360 to eventually make a profit (though considering how much debt they' ve racked up culitvating the xbox brand they' ve been a little more generous then the other 2) so all things considered you get what you pay for - plain and simple.

In terms of price, considering how well it sells why would they need to change? Its already sold out WW (Apparently). Say they drop the price to US$200 or less. It would mean the demand they haven' t been able to keep up with will increase even more. Thats not good business sense nor is it good for consumers. Inflating the price reduces demand (well not by much looking at the latest figures). Thats just how the market works. I' m sure when demand drops the price will drop accordingly but considering the goal of every business is to maximise profits it would be irresponsible to Nintendos share holders if they didn' t milk the Wii for all its worth, all companies do this.

I still maintain that the Wii IS NOT A RIP OFF too ME, i don' t care how you slice it. I will get the First Rate AAA Nintendo titles i want plus the potential of the new controls. Thats enough value from my US$250 regardless of how you define it.

I think the Wii is overpriced but I don' t think it' s a rip-off. Same thing with the salt water. yeah, there' s salt water in abundance but hey, if I want it nice and clean in a bottle I' m sure as hell aren' t going to do it myself. I' ll buy a damn bottle. Perhaps the salt water is overpriced, but that has more to do with the competition on the salt water market and the demand of salt water, as well as shipping and the you-know-what-shit they do.
The Wii doesn' t have to compete with the 360 and the PS3 so Nintendo can keep a relatively high price for it' s weak components. And they have a different bussiness model.
If the 360 didn' t have any competition within it' s own market, then you can bet your ass on that MS would raise the price sky high.

Your car analogy has got a little error: " but this etra speed & power has absolutely NO value in busy city streets (SD TV)." This says basically " Your Xbox 360/Ps3 graphics look like Wii graphics on a SD TV" which is not true. But I get what you want to say but well...I think you are not getting my point.

I am just saying that you are paying too much considering what you are getting in terms of hardware. I' d even say most of the people who buy a Wii (like all the non-gamers) will have much more fun playing Wii than playing 360/PS3 and therefore the console will have much more value to them. But this doesn' t change that your initial investment to be able to have the Wii experience is expensive in terms of cost/performance ratio. I am really not trying to bash Wii or something if you think that, I just want to say that from a pure technical point of view if you' d make a little bigger investment you' d get much better hardware. This doesn' t mean you' ll have more fun with the " better hardware" , but it will be simply technically more advanced and therefore more valuable.

And of course, from a business point of view that' s absolutely awesome what Nintendo is doing. I mean, they are like the only console maker in a CENTURIES (only counting the important ones) to make money from day 0 with their hardware.

Btw. another thing that' s really bugging me about Wii pricing is this damn stupid forced bundle. I mean in Japan you pay iirc 200 bucks and get a Wii and nothing else, over here you have to pay 250 and get Wii Sports as an extra. And while Wii Sports is a really fun experience (especially when playing it with my little sister) I still don' t really think I' d have shelled out 50€ for it.

250$ is peanuts compared to how much you will pay for the console in the next 5 years. The sticker price of the console is not where most of the money goes.

If you buy 10 games in 5 years (assuming the console ever gets that many decent games). Add another wiimote, and maybe a classic controller or some other accessory. You' re looking at about 900$ US.

ORIGINAL: Agent Ghost

250$ is peanuts compared to how much you will pay for the console in the next 5 years. The sticker price of the console is not where most of the money goes.

If you buy 10 games in 5 years (assuming the console ever gets that many decent games). Add another wiimote, and maybe a classic controller or some other accessory. You' re looking at about 900$ US.

So? It' s up to each individuall if they find it worth it or not. Why waste half the money on a 360 with 50 games if you feel a Wii with one single game is more entertaining.
You are obviously feeling the Wii is not worth it and I can understand that. But it doesn' t mean that the universal truth is that the Wii is a rip-off.
I could pay $1000 just for Wii and Metroid Prime 3. I never consider production costs when I buy something. I only think, " what is this worth to ME" ?. Right now I could pay around $100 for a Wii. It' s not worth much more and for the same amount of money I can get two really good games for the 360.
With the actual Wii price, I can get a huge pile of great 360 games. So no Wii for Mii, not just yet.

ginjirou please tell me you' re joking about the eye drops. 60$ for 0.000001 cents worth of water is insane! Do you have any idea what the markup is for eye drops in the US? In canada that same product costs us 4$. LOL But hey, maybe the american eye drops come with a nunchuck applicator.

As I said, I never consider production costs. I pay the amount of money I feel I' m ready to pay.
If the people who sell the product are making truck loads of money, then it' s great! That means they have a good bussiness model.
They get what they want, I get what I want.

They get what they want, I get what I want.

Kumbaya.

Had it been just a few months of domination i wouldn' t even make a fuss, but, your persistent and unfounded Wiibashing (won' t last 3 years, see no promise in controls, still a a gimmick) coupled with 9 months of continued sales success (which neither the ps3 nor the 360 have come even close to matching the Wiis success nor do they look like changing that any time soon) i just had to say something. Your simply in denial, you can' t stand the Wiis success that it hurts which compells you to bash it at any opportunity. If you were comfortable with the way the 360 was going you would have not need to bad talk the Wii, but you can see whats happening - its so obvious hence all the negative comments about the Wii any chance you get. I am comfortable with how the Wii is going, its not perfect - far from it. But its moving along nicely. I feel no need to bash on any competiting console any more. I no longer feel insecure about the Wiis strategy, position. To bad the same can' t be said about you.

Putting this spin on the discussion is stupid. It' s not like we are scared of the wii in that regard that its selling more, why should we be?

We are talking negatively about the wii because we are dissapointed with it, because its taking one step forward and two steps back.

The Wiimote is great for all games, and in this way the wii will have poor controls in same games where the others are better, im sure most people would beatWii players in FPS games usinig a normal controller, and Wii players would be raped by someone with a mouse and keyboard.

On a power basis, the wii is simply so far behind, and its not just about resplution (HD). The power of the consoles comes into effect with A.I. and physics as well, which happen for next generation gameplay.

The fauls combined with a poor games lineup (i mean 3 games worth buying?) is quite sad.

but this etra speed & power has absolutely NO value in busy city streets (SD TV)

hold your horses there, the 360 look so much better than ps2 games even on last Gen, HDTV will offer a great difference only on Textures... games contain so much more tech , consider the quality of shadow lightining which brings the atmosphere to life, polygon models, how much stufff is going on on the screen , etc etc... so even if you are on SD you are only missing a little. in fact, even HDTV has its own small issues.

No It isn' t stupid at all. I can accept criticism about the Wii (like poor library, limited graphics and online amongst other things). Ive mentioned that the Wii is far from perfect. However when such blatant fanboy comments based only on opinions but passed of as fact i have to question the motives. I mean saying the Wii is a rip off, has no staying power sells only on price, only on hype etc etc without anything to back him up gives me this impression.

Let me stress - Criticisms based on facts i have no problems, criticisms based on opinions passed of as facts i do have a problem with.

If he said ' I think the Wii is a Rip off' i won' t even raise a sweat, he is well within his rights to determine what he feels is a ' Rip off' . But he didn' t. He said ' Wii is a Rip Off' He made his comment as a statement of fact. This comment on top of his regular Anti Wii rhetoric in other threads makes me come to that conclusion.

The Wiimote is great for all games, and in this way the wii will have poor controls in same games where the others are better, im sure most people would beatWii players in FPS games usinig a normal controller, and Wii players would be raped by someone with a mouse and keyboard.

No the Wiimote is NOT great for all games. I already realise this. Traditional Fighting games is one genre that translates poorly on the Wiimote as are a few others. As for FPS, well i' d wait till i try Metroid prime Corruption before making such bold claims. Matt from IGN said it has the best controls for a FPS console shooter ever so until you or I have tried it I wouldn' t be so quick to make such statement. Yes current FPS on Wii suck and i hope that Metroid is as good as Matt says and shows developers the proper was of implementing Wiimote controls. I won' t argue with the mouse and keyboard as i still feel that this is the superior control for a FPS.

On a power basis, the wii is simply so far behind, and its not just about resplution (HD). The power of the consoles comes into effect with A.I. and physics as well, which happen for next generation gameplay.

Again this has not affected the Wii so far. HD and advanced AI physics etc has not affect the ps2 either which according to Sony continues to outsell the ps3 & 360. Besides for me the PC provides the Highend visuals and Physics etc i need, the Wii provides something different. Heres an example of were the Wii can do something the others just can' t do-

How about a snow skiing simulator using the Balance board and the Wiimote and nunchuk. You can use the balance board to control the skis and use the Wiimote and Nunchuk as the ski poles (?) This should be possible on the Wii thanks to the interface options (oh please make a game like this!)

Thats something i can only experience on the Wii. I can experience high end graphics/AI/physics etc on My PC. Best of both worlds.

3 AAA Nintendo games by years end is pretty good. The lack of AAA thirdparty titles sucks. But there is time for this to change, and with the Wiis continued success i still feel its only a matter of time before we see some AAA thirdparty exclusives for the Wii.

I fear that we' ll never see third party AAA titles on the Wii. They' ll probably just make games to get some quick cash, and then use that money for their high profile titles on the other consoles.

How about a snow skiing simulator using the Balance board and the Wiimote and nunchuk. You can use the balance board to control the skis and use the Wiimote and Nunchuk as the ski poles (?) This should be possible on the Wii thanks to the interface options (oh please make a game like this!)

You would pay 100$ to look at a screen of you running down hill in a snowy landscape?

I prefer my ski games with lots of flips and jumps, id love to see you pull that off with the balance board.

In anycase the snowy landscape could be rendered 100% better by 360 or PS3.

In my opinion the wii offers same old gameplay using new gimmicky controls in the form of a glorified lightgun.

As to why Nintendo is selling so much, there are more factors making it tough one, price is definetly one, ignorance is another. Never before in the console race as there been a console thats so far behind in the terms of power as the wii. I guess if you made a poll among ordinary consumers they would have no idea that the wii isnt compared to the other two consoles in terms of power!

price is definetly one

Price? LOL, I can basically get a 360 for the same price as a Wii.

I like the way the MS fanboys pull constant cheapshots on nintendos software. things like having less memory so the games are shorter. Compare say, zelda:twilight princess and gears of war...theres your answer. Halo was good, but it never changed really through the whole game. Basically what you do in the first level is the same thing you do in the last level with nothing else much new. The levels are repetitive, the weapons barely differ, and there isnt much interaction other than the vehicles. Metroids level design is far more imaginative, the character herself is much deeper and has more to her than the master chief who from what you see in the game is this. He is a soldier and kills aliens. Wow, Im being sucked into this upgraded starship troopers as we speak. And the whole bad-ass, hardly ever talk and when you do make it sound like kurt russel from escape from LA is just so outdone and cheesy now its like watching a b-grade jean claude van dumb movie. I really dont see why this game has such a rep for being such a deep story, there is barely anything to it. its the same old, aliens invade, and by some miracle the humans fight back and win. I know metroid is somewhat similar, but there is much more added to it unlike Halo, which uses the Doom principal basically, run to the end of the stage, shoot stuff on the way.

Just noticed something about the price, the 360 is CHEAPER than the Wii, at least where I live.

Wii with Wii sports:
http://www.webhallen.com/prod.php?id=60287
2699 SEK
360 with DoA4
http://www.webhallen.com/prod.php?id=60461
2549 SEK

Price is a factor my ass!