Have you ever wondered why, today on twenty first century, 2005 (almost ' 06) we are still using keyboards and mouse to interact with games on the PC? (Keyboards were used back in the old Commodore 64 days..)...

That' s because we don' t have something like " Nintendo" on the computer scene...

Have you ever thought that, your PSP is only a PS2 with a much smaller screen, a much worse sound than your 5.1 PS2, a less comfortable " loading" scene in every game and every level and, why not to say, a useless amount of features like watching an overpriced movie on a tiny screen with crappy sund...

And why the nintendo DS is A WHOLE NEW LEVEL of interaction with games.. It only has buttons because of GB advance retrocompatibility, because I can play nintendogs, Project Rub, Elektroplankton, Meteos, Yoshi' s Touch and Go (to name a few) without touching ANY button...

Why is that only Nintendo tends to really innovate?? WHY IS THAT?? why is that the 360 is only an " XBOX 1" with more horsepower? Why is that the PS3 is again, just a PS2 with better graphics??

Tomorrow... you will be seing on next gen consoles at the hands of Sony and microsoft experimenting with something that Nintendo already got for us...
Wouldn' t it be great if, instead of only looking for money they also try to bring new ways of interaction to us, gamers?

Because today, there are many things you will NEVER understand if you don' t have a DS, and there are MANY things you won' t understand without a Revolution. Tomorrow, I, and many others, will be handling someting awesome, completely new, and we' ll be watching you still pressing old buttons and just that. Today, I " touch" the game and " speak" to it. Tomorrow, I will be in.

Does only nintendo have to be part of this? I will never look at Nintendo the same way I did before. It is miles and miles away than it' s competitors.

Please, tell me what you think? And if there' s any nintendo fan, please take this post, and send it via chain mail, forums that you' re in, whatever, and help the Revlution begin!

How about, Wake up dude, this is just an illusion, virtual reality. ur speaking nonsense now, ur speaking figuratively. take that dog crap to english class. nintendo is dying in the console business. they' ll only do better in the handheld, just tell ' em to stop making so many versions of gameboy

Ouch! That' s not nice to say.
But listen .Hack, he does have a point. Nintendo used to have lots of good ideas and were the biggest but ever since the SNES they have only lost more market share for each home console they have made.
Hopefully the Revolution will take Nintendo to the same level they had in the good ' ol days but it' s a risky business.
Sure PSP is a smaller version of PS2 and PS3 is a more powerfull PS2 but what the he-l is GBA if not just a more powerfull version of GB Color. And GB color is just a Game Boy with color screen. When the SNES was released Nintendo kept saying that it' s more POWERFULL than it' s competitors. And the N64s biggest sale poing was that it was more POWERFULL than Saturn and PSX.
It is the controllers that Nintendo have always kept innovating. Otherwise they have been quite lazy, as the other companies. It' s only recently that Nintendo has started to make DS and Rev and so on.
In my opinion, Sega did some really good things when they released the Dreamcast, ahh my favourite console... But the Dreamcast ended up dead.

But I like your post! It' s very optimistic about Nintendo, something very rare these days. Maybe you should work for Nintendo, doing their marketing campains or something, because all of Nintendos commersials and ads have sucked so far imo.

I hope to never again read such mindless dribble.....

Yeah... that post was horrible.

About how PC' s are stuck with a keyboard and mouse because Nintendo hasn' t stepped in. Wow, that was just... lol, I don' t think I even want to go there. Most gamers that play PC games can' t stand a controller. The Keyboard is the only periphrial (I don' t know if I spelled that right) that has stood the test of time. There is no reason to change it. People have tried but the basic keyboard and mouse is still considered the best control set up by a vast grou of gamers. the real question here is why do consoles feel the need to change their controller with every generation?Yeah, the whole inovation thing but whatever. If it' s not broken don' t fix it.

*Peripheral Rampage99, LoL

Ya man don' t diss the keyboard and mouse like that, if anything they r the best " controllers" around. u can do so much with a keyboard and mouse. they even have a mouse that rumbles/vibrates now, like the console controllers. i dunno how much support there is from games for that kind of mouse, but i' ve seen it on the web (forget what store).

Be careful when condemning someone about their language skill, as English may not be their first language.

As far as what .Hack is saying, I agree. There is no innovation in video gaming peripherals any more, outside of Nintendo. He' s just giving credit where it' s due. Does the keyboard and mouse need to be overhauled or replaced? Probably not, for most PC enthusiasts. Does that mean that someone shouldn' t try? Definitely not! If not for innovative people, we' d still be playing on Atari' s one stick, one button controller. Nintendo has done a LOT for CONSOLE video game players over the years, and I think that is what .Hack is trying to say. And he and I are glad that they haven' t stopped trying to bring fresh and exciting ideas to our beloved past-time.

Microsoft and Sony are more concerned with the bottom line that with gaming. Nintendo is saying that more power does not necessarily equate with a better video game experience. Do I agree? Hell, I don' t know! Right now I' m just upset that my Ravioli fell apart while I was heating it up! DAMN YOU CHEF BOYARDEEEEEEE!

Mouse and keyboard?

yeah it' s so cool to have to use all those different letters on keyboard instead of controller buttons - last time I checked that setup was the best for FPP games only , but it still is hopeless to search for the letters on keyboard (that' s why Xbox version of SC3 is considered better than the one on PC).

.Hack - don' t care about haters that luv mouse and keyboard so much since they belong to PC market and that means they don' t know all that much about quality console experience.

N wasn' t the only innovative company - DC was a huge step forward with online (made really good for the first time , cause Nintendo didn' t go to far with theirs before) and triggers that thanks to it' s cool use made it to Xbox and GCN plus 60Hz Pal for Europe - that' s huge and sega made it first.

Sony' s Eye Toy is a great thing plus they took games mainstream(that' s both cool and terrible).

MS has evolved the Online experience a lot and made it really cool on consoles.

Ginjirou - N64 - Analog controller plus Rumble pack and advanced 3D - quite an innovation since it' s a standard now.GCN however - a more powerfull N64 (wavebird was a great innovation but not that big of a change for gamers way of play).

GBA was the right step I think - u cannot innovate before u bring games to certain audio visual level.

Last time I' ve heard Rev was as powerfull as X360 and PS3 on SD TV and the only difference would be seen on HD TV so for many it' s simply on par.

I believe that revolution is going to happen - still I realise things may come out different but N seems to be succesfull in innovating and they seem to know what they are doing lately.

I don' t know why would anyone predict N' s death just like that whithout even checking it...maybe stupidity or fanboyism (or both cuz they are connected) is the answer?

]Gangsta[, About the N64, Nintendo made some new stuff with the controller like the rumble pack and analog stick. I know, that' s what I' m telling you. I said " It is the controllers that Nintendo have always kept innovating."
The advanced 3D however, I can' t possibly consider that an innovation. It' s just the natural step forward in technology that everyone was expecting. Advanced 3D is just more power. I' d say that PSX was the first console really taking advantage of 3D in a new way.
But you are absolutely right about the PC keyboard and mouse. FPS and RTS are ideal for that kind of setup but all other types of games require a controller. That' s why there are controllers for PCs out on the market. And those controllers would be shit without Nintendo.
People keep saying that Microsfot has a lot of money from the software business and that they will always survive on that and that' s right. BUT Microsoft is a company seeking PROFIT! If the XBox360 doesn' t bring the company enough money, they will probably give up. I mean, everyone probably understands that a company doesn' t like wasting money.

Yeah I get what you' re saying but it' s hard to seperate console , games and controller.

N64 in my opinion was a huge software innovation as well - First Amazing (and still unmatched for many) 3D Platform game , Best FPP Games on consoles (and say what u want, PD is so much better then most of your " Cool" PC FPSes).

The 2 Zelda games that showed how polished and groundbraking a game can be.
No1 in Gamestats after all these years.

Beetle adventure racing for me was simply amazing - and many people have no idea that it was actually the first
game of EA BIG ( that wasn' t their name at the time) and it' s so original.

I' m not saying that it was the best console at it' s time , but I wouldn' t consider anyone a core gamer if he' s not familiar with those games (I actually played them in DC era when I realised that PSX games are not the only cool games around and knew that there' s that one " PERFECT" game called zelda"

Anyway I agree with the PSX , but I meant Advanced 3D as using that new dimension in a cool new way (N64 software) :)


Still I don' t think X360 is the last system for MS even if it sucks in sales dept.

They know that it' s a hard but very profitable game.And for a PC software Dev they are doing amazingly good - even though I' d never say they won the No 2 spot since they simply loose a lot of money.

.Hack you are wrong I disagree that it is lack of innovation. That' s a naiive thing to say as there are hundreds of innovative companies out there doing great things with peripherals. There have been several attempts to change the keyboard for the better and all have failed miserably. Why? The main reason is the inertia of end users. Resistance to change if you prefer. The standard " QWERTY" keyboards are actually extremely inefficient for typing. It was originally designed in the 1800' s to slow down touch typists who jammed up the old typwriters by typing too fast.

Another keyboard layout called the Dvorak keyboard is also available. This layout has the letters positioned for speed typing. Although the Dvorak keyboard may have been designed for speed, it has never caught on, and the QWERTY layout continues to be the most popular.

There' s the Erodex keyboard which is a new design. Time will tell its fate too.

Logitech has recently released a keyboard that has a certain amount of programmable keys.

And a fair few others if you could be bothered to look. I remember seeing another one with LCD keys that showed application icons. You won' t see any radical changes in keyboards any time soon because:
A) People are resistant to change and we' ve become dependant on the current one
B) The design is constantly being improved upon

And mice? Well they' re pretty much the same story. There have been attempts to change it. The track-ball is a faster way of navigation (because the movement of the thumb is faster than that of the wrist) but people are reluctant to change and it never took off. Instead you see improvements on the initial design (optical mice, laser mice, more ergonomic designs, etc).

Finally the combination of the two peripherals is quite frankly the most accurate input out there and has yet to be bested by anything.

Um, that Ergodex keyboard seems really stupid. It and those other " innovative" keyboards and controllers doesn' t really change the way you control games or software. The buttons are just positioned differently. You are still sitting with a big board with lots and lots of buttons on it.
Nintendo truly innovated the controllers by adding things that not only made it easier to control games, but they also made it possible to control games in new ways we could have never imagined. The rumble pack for example, what an incredible idea! The rumble really makes you feel affected by the game.
And the analog stick really was an revolution imo. I hate the way you controll Half-Life 2 and other FPS games for PC when you can only run or walk. The analog stick makes it possible to do everything between standing still and running at top speed in a very intuitive way.
With a keyboard you don' t really have the ability to sit comfortable either. Leaning back in a big sofa, or even laying down, with a controller is niiiice. Try doing that with a big fat keyboard and a mouse and you' ll see how hard it is! Especially with the mouse. I' ve tried to sit comfortably with a keyboard but couldn' t. It' s because your arms will have to be positioned in a really strange way since you can' t hold the entire keyboard in your hands. Han even if you could, how would you be able to use the mouse then?

You' re missing my point. Every major attempt to redesign the keyboard and mouse has failed. These weren' t just slapstick efforts either. They were designed to be more efficient and help consumers. You think that if Nintendo has a go at designing input devices for the PC that they' ll automatically succeed? You think that if they completely revolutionize the controls for a PC that everyone will drop everything and embrace it? I' m sorry to say but you' re beloved Nintendo would fail along side every one else.

I' m don' t want to start an argument as to which (KB+mouse or controller) input device is superior. It' s up to personal choice. And don' t get me wrong about being a PC fanboy. I own all the consoles and LOVE Halo and many other titles. But a couple of your comments are flawed.

I hate the way you controll Half-Life 2 and other FPS games for PC when you can only run or walk. The analog stick makes it possible to do everything between standing still and running at top speed in a very intuitive way.

How often do you need to jog/power walk in a FPS? 99% of the time you are sprinting for cover or trying to creep up on someone. I get what you' re trying to say but using FPS for an example isn' t the best. A racing game would be a better example where the analog stick controls acceleration. Or a game like Splinter Cell.

You have to admit that a mouse if vastly superior to an analog stick when it comes to aiming in a FPS. That' s why we have slight aim correction in most console FPS' s.

I' m not saying Nintendo aren' t innovative. They are and I have a lot of respect for them. However, comments about there not being any innovation in the PC input device industry are simply wrong. Comments about the reason for this lack of innovation because there is no " Nintendo" of the PC world are just stupid. There is a reason why we' ve stuck with a KB and mouse for so long. And unlike consoles, PC' s have more uses than just games.

JESUS CHRIST! There is a big f-ing difference between consoles and PCs.
PCs arent' t just for gaming! That' s why you can' t do a keyboard designed only for games. You still have to be able to do other things with a keyboard for the PC. That' s why the KB is kept as it is. And lets say you could have two KBs. One for the games and one for other stuff like writing, or programming, whatever. Then you would only buy the normal KB anyway since it' s much more convenient than having to shift from one KB to another depending on if you' re playing a game or chatting via msn! So a keyboard designed for games on PCs is just a waste of effort. It' s much easier to buy a controller for PCs (available in your nearest store). And those controllers my friend, would be nothing without Nintendo!

there is a reason PC gamers don' t normally buy controllers for their computers. They consider the KB and mouse far superior. Nintendo has nothing to do with it.

that' s so true rampage. the keyboard suits me just fine when it comes to pc games, and for any kind of game. I best even if nintendo came in and tried to innovate the keyboard and mouse, maybe make them something diff, ppl would just diss it. i can' t see myself playing counterstrike with a controller, i' d get raped

Mouse and KB - that' s a very precise setup

Controller - A very comfy couch setup (and it doesn' t feel bad when you have opponents playing on joypads as well - HALO2)

Rev controller could be the perfect merger of those two.

I do see where he is coming from. Lately, it seems that only Ninty are brave enough to take innovative risks. Hell, we might even find that the Rev' s controller is easier to use! Sure, the concept of a touch screen or microphone(even dual screen) aren' t " original" , but Ninty have done something new by using those ideas in a way that nobody else has.

Saying that, however, Sony appear to be trying new things with their Eye Toy(ie. the very innovative Eyedentify). Perhaps they could even have other adventurers that make use of the Eye Toy! Only time will tell...

If the PC wasn' t made for so many other things other than gaming, then they would most likely have had controller also. But that is not the case.

Games (genres) orinally designed around a specific control setup usually fit better with that control type.

I think the main reason console gamers, who perfer controllers, do so is because they play more than just First Person and RTS (I see the problem with the traditional ones but that can be easily remedied through good design) and the control loss is not enough for them to cry about.

But in the reverse (controller designed games on KB&M setup) some games are pretty much unplayable (ex. Capcom games), or at least not worth it.

Some people even complain about Arcade to controller.

The Revolution controller setup is defintely good thing for the KB&M replacement for games.

Oh, the only RTS type game I really played was Dragon Force for the Sega Saturn both of which I adored. That was not problem to play and pause easily dealt with the problem of cursor speed.
The controller is more easily useable in gameplay to a wider audience. Which also allowed (the controller) developers to create games that are not like the bulk of other games and easy to play for beginners (understandable). This is what Nintendo has been going for and still is for with the Revolution.

and yes I do agree with .Hack


PS,
Give me any FPS with a controller (setup properly) and I' ll do better than I would with a KB&M (significantly). Not saying either is better for it.
That is just how I play.