i would like to share with you guys mi vision of a new fighting genre which i had in mind for quiet some time now, this might look very long but i think it is interesting, i' ve already posted something about that and it didn' t attract the attention i hoped, at the time some stupid greeks and mongols were poisoning the forum , so please i would love to have your feedbacks even if you say it' s crap, i' m just feeling the fighting genre is kinda stuck and evolving extremly slowly even on next gen, for me virtua fighter didn' t impress me at all, specialy on the animation side which is stagnating...

This fighting genre is not like virtua fighter , or tekken ... not that style, this has rather an anime style, think naruto or bleach but NOT THEM, this genre is a hybrid between rpg and fighting games which will play mostly ONLINE.

now my ideas:

1) chracters should be created from a to z, we are on next gen , i expect much more choice and interactions with the items i created, little big planet on ps3 showed that exaclty and i want exactly the same ability on this game, you can tailor pants, caps, tag them add design from pictures you downloaded and everything will look fine as it does on little big planet... this will creat a truly unique characters and bring creativity to the table.


2) Your character had 4 main factors (strenght , defense , and stamina)

life: this is your life bar
strenght: the power of your hits
defense: your ability to resist hits
stamina: your power to attack and unleach special attacks.

3)

your character had a level exactly like JRPG' s, the more higher the more it kicks ass, depending on the style of your characters initiated first (at the creation) some factors will have more importance than the other, of course after reaching high level you will probably have excellent " factors" , all of them, but to reach that you should:

4) beat players online, the more you win the more your power increase, as in rpg' s if you beat people with low levels, they won' t add you anything ... well almost, however the weak one will benefit even if he loses

say if he loses his experience will still increase by 5%
if he wins someone with the same level , more experience
if he manage to win someone with a higher level, he' ll have much more experience etc etc ... got the point, for exemple there is a chance to beat a player with a very high level, if you are good with what you got, if you dodge his attacks etc...

HOWEVER if the one with higher level loses, he will lose some experience , this is to prevent people to level up their characters by making fake games with friends and say things like " hey can you please let me beat you so i can level up" .

5) your stats are wroitten, how many times you loses , how many times you win, in fact you will probably gain a REAL reputation if you are good, your characters can bring nightmares to some people .

6) now here is a very cool idea , first of all your characters upon creations have almost no abilities , no speical attacks, except for somemovements that comes with the style he chooses , ninja , kung fu, etc i don' t know just making exemple ... and you WILL UNLOCK ABILITIES THE MORE YOU LEVEL UP...


now think of it as a very big tree with a lot of branches, suppose that at creation you will choose if your chracater is good or eveil, that' s first, now the evil path unveil abilities that the good path doesn' t have, each ability will unlock others, and those cost experiences , there should be a thousand of special attacks and movements that one can unlock, the developers might add some contents later on.


The impact of the game is that when i play against you, i have almost noooo idea what your character is capable of, there might be some secret techniques that you learned and that you could unlock because of your high levels or some stuff like that, this will creat excitement and you can always surprise people... my problem with fighting games is that when i play the game a lot , i know each characters what is capable of, i know their combos they are predictable, in soul calibur , my brother could not hit me easily and same for me, which made me lose interest in the game later on (and i was extremly good in the game, at least that' s what i thougt).

so you might start with good path for exemple , then unlock the tiger style or whatever , learn how to do some kung fu techniques and then learn the ninja way etc etc, so basicaly your characters can learn a lot and a lot of techniques , may be all of them in one unique character (if you do,n' t have a life)

7) ok there are many techniques and spell for your customized character , but how going to map that on a controler that has much fewer button:

firstof all there is the standard things to make a special attack , like the regular fighting games , but what' s new here is this:

you will use your second analog (right one) as the hands of your character , think how naruto or whatever uses his hands to launch those attacks , wel you will do the same thing:

there are attacks that you can simply move the analog stick in some motions, for exemple make two downs and one up, then you add another layer

keep the R pushed will perfomring with the second analog, this should creat other attacks

keep L pushed and perform again with the second analog, well you get the idea guys?

all those comnbinations will allow many possibilities , heck may be the six axis will add even more...


YOU WILL NOT GET CONFUSE WITH ALL THE NUMBER OF THA ATTACKS, because you learn them one by one , you will probably get use to them before unlocking others , until you become a real master learning all your attacks , may be you could map those attacks on teh controleer, so that you are the ONLY ONE who can unleash them, but i guess that' s useless ...


8) some attacks can be upgraded , leveled up, if you use them a lot , so someone might unleash the attacks as you do , but yours is much more devastating even if your level is lower than his !

9) ALL ATTACKS cost stamina and you should use them wisely , if you run out of stamina, you can' t unleash those special attacks, and the regular atacks will be weak, so you should think strategicaly, of course if your characters is tough, your stamina will be very large.


10) i want to see that my character is getting tired, or the opponent for that matter, may be when your ONLINE , you should only see your life bar , not the opponent' s one ...


11) physics should be implemented

12) this game will be nothing if the core game if nothing, those are features and ideas that should be added for the main game, it has to have good graphics, very nice animations , good physics etc ... well thank you for your atention, i hope you will give me your feedbacks and discuss with me all that.

I like the RPG idea and customising your character. Has that been done in a fighter before? Can' t think of one.

Some nice ideas in there.

Sounds like a great idea but, like you said, it doesn' t belong to the same genre as Virtua Fighter and such games.
I like Virtua Fighter and I think only minor upgrades are needed to keep fighting games fresh the next-gen.
But your idea sounds like a fresh and new genre that' ll appeal to a different crowd.

What I like
-As I said above, it' s a fresh idea.
-Ultimate character customisation, something that could be a game itself. Add the ability to take a photo of yourself with Eyetoy/360 cam so you can map it on your character and it' ll be great!
-I like the idea how the characters have four different attributes and that you can choose which one to focus on.
-Playing it online should be awesome.
-The idea of having stats is good.
-I love the idea that the character has few moves right after creation. This allows the player learn the basics.
-The idea of having branches where you can choose different special attacks is what I like most. This will truly make each player' s character unique, not only visually but in gameplay as well. It would be really cool if the game would choose for you based on how you fight but maybe it' s more fun to choose by yourself, I dunno. A combination might be a good idea.
-This reminds me alot about the fighting system in Shenmue, which of course is very good. Upgradable moves and stuff.
-Seeing only your own life bar and not your opponents is a great idea. If ' ve played fight night round3 you know that they don' t have life bars at all. Would you prefer that or do you want to keep the life bar?

What I don' t like
-I' ve never really liked the idea of leveling in competitive gaming so that' s one thing I don' t like with your game. Leveling makes the game based on time spent, less than pure skill and I like the skill part in multiplayer games. Instead of levels I' d rather see the player gaining more accessories or attacks as rewards for winning. A rank system would work though, were you just get a title but don' t gain any power.
-With full customisation, story modes will basically be impossible. As a single-player game it probably won' t be much fun.
-I like the fact that you can learn each attack in different fighting games because that' s how fighting works in real life. You learn how different people behave before an attack and how the attack moves as it is executed. This allows you to read your oponent like an open book and counter-attack effeciently. But I guess, if you' re bored with that, then maybe it' s better to have really unpredictable attacks. The question is how those attacks will be made unpredictable. Even if they LOOK differently most games usually have a low, mid high level hit spots. It shouldn' t be too hard to realise where it hits.
What is your idea of that system? Are you still implementing the high-mid-low hit point system or would you like to have something else?

Questions
-How is the game supposed to look? You mentioned animé-style fighting but does that mean it should lok like the Naruto-games or 2D fighters like Street Fighter/Guilty gear or were you only thinking about the gameplay when you said animé-style?
-Is the game 2D or 3D?
-How will online competitions be setup? Lobbies like in DOA4?
-Will there be any role-playing elements like a big world a la WOW or something?
-Will there only be 1-on-1 fighting or can there be simultaneous team battles, tag battles, or similar?

That' s all for now. I' ll probably come up with sometihng more later.

thank you very much ginjirou and space jase for your quick answers.

now let me clear more some stuff , as you made some very interesting points:

1) about leveling up, you should not think of it as in word of warcraft, because in that game, if you face an opponent with a very high levels, there is no way to beat him, also in rpg' s you just click and reflexes are not really important... definitly not like in a fighting game. in that game, when you face an opponent with a very high level, there is a possibilty to beat him , if you master your techniques well, you have good reflexes and you are smart, like in real fighting, the possibility to win is there, it will only be tough, which should be exciting .

tough , because you inflict minor dmaages, SLOWLY BUT SURELy, so you should be careful dodging his attacks , it' ll be exactly like animes, sometime the hero is not as powerful as the other one, however the hero is smart and can trap his opponent. i hope you get my idea, the difference between levels will creat excitement not frustrations, in WOW there is almost no hope to beat someone witha very high level, heck you can inflict a lot of damage and heal himself all over again...



2) the story mode will be available, in fact a single mode with true character should still be available but i don' t think it will have much importance, as i said this is a totaly new genre , like what MMO' s did to rpg' s , when you creat your character , you will practice first in the single mode and you will gain some basic techniques by beating the single game, that is your reward , to make you ready to the on line game, but then the story will not exist.... seriously guys, don' t you think taht the story in fighting games are just crap crap crap they are plain ridiculous .... this game might have many advantages that skiping those will be a no problem.


3) you can still learn and predict somehow what his character might unleash during the combat or if he made a movement similar to yours, however ginjirou in real fighting, your opponent is not as predictable , he might the same technique as you do but he does have others that you don' t have, that' s why you might have no idea of his potential , even if you both play Kung fu...

so you might guess the opponent special attack from the movement that precedes just the attack, but you will still have no idea about an atack that you have never seen or seen rarely .


4) as for the mid low high points, it might be the same like other fighting games, it' ll get very complicated to miss with those and you know , with this genre, the mid and low high will still be good and valid... so i don' t see why to change them unless there is something better .

5) the game is in 3d that has an anime style graphicaly (although i meant in my orginal post the gameplay), next gen should allow some very cool cellshading that should look almost like the animes.

6) for the online setup, i imagine there will be tournament tables, each random player will take a spot at the base of this table, this like football in the world cup, all the way to the top. of course there will be simple vs game online.

7) i was thinking about the possibility to have 2 players vs 1 player at teh same time , not like tag battles, hoiwever this might make the game be like smash brother or soemthing ... so i' ll want to keep it simple and allowing only tag battles.


there you go buddy

Love the idea. I hate how in most fighters, once you' ve learnt the moves and combos you can block almost everything. The best part of this is you dont know what to expect completely until you' ve fought the guy a few times... and then he might have improved the next time too.

You could have fight clubs or arenas, where people would gather online. Take it in turns to fight each other or spectate. You' d watch a fight, and think ' Holy crap I' m not fighting either of those two!' or ' I could take him!' . Or just choose to have private fights int the middle of nowhere...

Hey you could maybe add subtle signs of what an opponent might be capable of. So like at the start of the match you notice what stance he has, or you notice a split second spark from his right fist and you think ' Oh shit he' s got lightning special attacks!' etc

...

Only thing is you' d really have to have thousands of moves, small and big, different styles, to really customise you character. That would take the most time to develop, and then you' d have to really balance it all, which would be a nightmare!

If it was really well balanced, and it was completely lag-free (big problem!), I' d get it for sure!

Well ok. Sounds cool. Too bad it' s just an idea and nothing more... yet.

-Would the game have counter-attacks?

-Would you be injured slightly even if you block an attack?

-Would there be ringouts?

-Would weapons be included in the game (swords, staffs, knives etc.)?

-Would supernatural attacks like magic (think Dragon Ball-ish magic, not RPG magic) be included in the game?

-Since you said both gameplay and graphics would be animé-style I' m guessing it would look and play like a DOA/Guilty Gear Hybrid but with much deeper customisation/attacks?

-How important would combos be? Would the focus be more on single special attacks than loads of combos?

-Would the appearance be proportional to your stats? For example, if you make your character muscular and big with heavy clothes, will that give him stats like slow but powerful attacks, low agility but high defence?

-Would the levels be used as much as possible through easy sideway character movement (soul calibur), or will the game play more like a traditional straight-line fighter (Tekken)?

-Which developer would you like to see make the game?

-Since you want the special attacks to be executed with the second analog stick I' m guessing those attacks won' t be too strong since they' re pretty easy to pull off?

-Would the game have power meters like in Street Fighter where you gradually build up power?

-Would the game levels have multiple hights like Virta Fighter 3 or would the levels be plain?

very good idea choupolo about the signs and the online arena , i love it, think like PGR 3 right?? when you are on that tornoment table, you are physicaly there waiting your turn ...

i have to say that you can' t know the exact level of your opponent , but only the class , that should give you an estimation level , for exemple , a Hokage status should have more than 75 in the level, so when you see an opponent with a hokage status know it' s a badass motherfucker however you can' t make a differen,ce between two hookages until the combat begin, which will really make the show.


you are right about the problem of balance it must be tough for the developers but really not that tough, they can make it , they can even be inspired from animes if they lack ideas , but they should make a thousand moves ( that' s magic attacks , combos , combat techniques ) it might soujd impressive but it is not that impressive , they can do it, i would suggest that the time the invest in developeing CG' s that HAS nothing to do whatsoever with game , rather invest it in developing moves and techniques , that should be much more interesting to 90% of gamers. keep in mind that this is a totaly new genre, so the story might be neglected totaly or skiped , might be bad for some, but all this will make you forget about that part .




i just want to develop about the right analog stick to make the moves :


1) pressing the R trigger , while moving the second analog stick will make the character move his right hand, this is to make the special attack look like in the anime, this will also give a clue to the opponent if the character will unleash a certain attack, you can guess it just by the move of his hands, a playerr that master those attacks can perform them very quickly using the analog stick (THUS HIS RIGHT HAND WILL MOVE VERY QUICKLY)

pushing the L + the right analog stick ====> left hand
pushing both L and R whicle moving the analog will make both hands move.


i bet it is is totaly feasible and not hard , as developers can do things much harder than that, this is just an idea to make the show and enhance the gameplay.

you want to know (if your knowledgable about the attack) that an opponent willl unleash a deadly one, just by the move of his hands , but you might forget the moves of hands for a certain attacks and then you GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME , or maybe be the opponent move his hand very fast you can' t catch it , anyway : may be we wil start to hear " goddam it he' s gonna launch the super cameaaaaameaaaaaaa" lol


keep your feedback coming , may be we can develop this idea much further and send it to ubisoft or bandai or something , this idea has a potential and IF WELL DONE can revolutionized the genre.

ginjirou, it' s better to not talk about the game in every detail, we should probably keep the discution about the idea, new ideas, things that would affect the idea... for instance, ringout or not, it doesn' t matter for now, i don' t think this is important , however:


_ you might inflict damages even if your attack is blocked , but of course it al depends on your strength, if you have low power but your opponent has a very high defense , he can block your attack with no scratch , if your level is very high and his is weak, he can pierce your defense...

_ don' t forget that those with high levels earned those levels, they didn' t fight boars or kill newbies like in MMO' s :p (which is a way for some people), if you want to level up in this game , you should fight people with almost your levels , otherwise it won' t have much effect.


_ clothes having effect on your powers, didn' t think about this one , it sounds good but complicated.

_ the special powers i had in mind from the very begining are not really magics , but rather the dragon ball z type, which is almost the naruto bleach type.


_ to make it more RPG , some magics, powers will be based on elemntals , fire will beat ice for exemple , however and this is intersting if you have a very good ice attack , a low fire attack will not match. you probably better off if you dodge it than counter it !

_ counters will also be available , but we can add to that sectors some ideas and tweaks so it won' t become dull like dead or alive .


_ combos wil be important like in soul calibur or mortal kombat for instance, they can be unlocked as well depending on the style .

_ there will be no power meter per se, it is your stamina that has to do with all powers , watch it and spend it wisely.

_ true using the analog will make moves very easy to pull off, but that' s not a bad thing because seriously all special moves are possible even if they make them very hard to use in early fighting games , but lately it' s not the case, special moves are easy to use , because the point is , how to use them and win not how to pull them off! (combos will still be somewhat tough), also teh hard oart her is to remember the combination , the analog sticks with the R and L and may be otehr buttons to use... that is really btricky


_ the stamina will also prevent button mashing and just unleashing magics with no limits , may be if you have a very large stamina you can afford that but it is always suggested to spend it wisely , because if you get tired YOU GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME .


_ one thing that is very important , because of the combinations of all styles and characters customziation , matches should be somewhat long so you will have all the time to study your " new" opponenet, this is very important, unless of course you are a newbie and your fighting an expert , he' ll probably wipe you out in a second anyway.

I want this game!

Fighting games are probably the most guilty of sticking to the past than any other genre. I' ve got DOA4 on the 360 but I' d have been better off just firing up VF2 on the Saturn, it' s a better game in every way other than the quality of the graphics. Soooo boring.

I' d like to see a fighting game where your character suffers real damage - broken limbs, cuts, realistic concussion. It' s so poor to batter someone over the head with a 100 pound axe and they just get up again unscathed in every way. I don' t mean ultra-realistic or a sim, just that there should be consequences to getting battered for 3 minutes.

Fighting games need to move on.

Some good ideas there, i must say..


AM2 did state VF5 would be the last one as we know it.

VF5 is soo deep and complex (if you want it to be and know what your doing) it' ll take you years and years to master every charactor. It' s almost like a fighting sim than an arcade game.


I bet AM2 are looking into / Working on, the next fighting game to kick off a new Genre / Era for the rest to copy.

Give me the DoA girls, Tekken guys and Virtua Fighters' combat system and i' d be in fighting game heaven.

VF5 is soo deep and complex (if you want it to be and know what your doing) it' ll take you years and years to master every charactor. It' s almost like a fighting sim than an arcade game.

Have you ever been in a fight?

Let me rephrase that.. More like a Martial arts Sim.

ORIGINAL: Virtua fighter 5

VF5 is soo deep and complex (if you want it to be and know what your doing) it' ll take you years and years to master every charactor. It' s almost like a fighting sim than an arcade game.

ORIGINAL: SpaceJase

Have you ever been in a fight?

ORIGINAL: Virtua fighter 5

Let me rephrase that.. More like a Martial arts Sim.

Hahaha...

VF5 is as close as a fighting game has gotten to a martial arts sim without being incredibly boring. It is " deep"

I do wonder what it would be like for VF6 to have a 4 button setup like Tekken though, ...one for each limb. Surely that would just increase the complexity and depth of the fighting system?

nitro, can you please stick to the subject, i mean if you don' t give a flying fuck about the thread you don' t have to show it that way, all right ?

Hi Abasoufiane

I' m not a huge fan of fighting games - I normally only play as one or two characters then give it up so your idea does sound a good one. Would it work that if you levelled up when using certain types of attack then these get improved (better damage/speed/range etc) but attacks you don' t use wither away. The you have the opportunity to develop your character as a specialist (i.e. big hitter but possibly easily countered) or a generalist?

i think i mentioned the fact that using special attacks will get improve " better damage , or speed etc" in my original post however the fact that you don' t use some and wither away is indeed a very interesting idea as well, it should be awesome that way, well not wither away totaly but they will decline in power if you don' t use them (only at a slow rate though ), so when you aquire 400 (moves , special attacks , combos , etc ) some will definitly lose their power and oblige you to be a specialist in some kinds, but it is always nice to KNOW that you can be excellent in all of them... the choice will be yours at the end.