Check out this enlightening post from a poster named Arsynic at the Gaming-Age Forums.

" I think Ninty should keep the " Revolution" name. I mean, a next generation console with last generation technology...that' s Revolutionary indeed. [/sarcasm]

In an industry where Tony Hawk and Madden (the bastion of all that is wrong with this industry) still sell millions of copies, original games will fall by the wayside. Nintendo will learn this the hard way. Nintendo' s vision is too good for the industry as it stands now. If I were Nintendo, I' d just wait for the inevitable industry crash to hit and then revitalize it.

This industry works like a forest. The big trees form a canopy over the forest that doesn' t allow light to pass through and nurture the smaller foilage that the animals feed on. So they die. So the forest floor is left with dry, dead foilage that' s no good for anyone. Then a lighting storm comes, strikes a tree and the whole forest burns down. This revitalizes the forest and allows for new growth. The foilage comes back, the animals feast and all is good until the trees get too large again and the whole cycle starts again.

We have a few big trees like EA, Ubi Soft, Activision, Square-Enix, Namco, Konami, et. al. that steal all of the sunlight from the smaller developers who make the most revolutionary stuff. However, if it' s not Tony Hawk or Madden, it gets no advertising dollars and therefore no exposure and stays in the niche. However, the industry needs these new ideas to survive. However, these smaller devs are choked out and either close their doors or get on the cookie-cutter-shit bandwagon. Then the industry gets dry and stale and eventually collapses. That' s going to happen soon, I don' t know when, but soon. People are going to get sick of playing the same old shit over and over again.

Maybe Nintendo realizes this and Revolution could possibly ride out the eventual collapse of the industry and take it in a new direction. Fuck the establishment. Perhaps we' re all dead fucking wrong. Perhaps it has nothing to do with better visuals, better sound or better physics. Perhaps it has everything to do with game mechanics and ideas. Perhaps its the way we think about games that need to change. Nintendo' s vision is that the next generation has little to do with having better graphics. However, that' s how our jaded asses have been programmed to think over the years. Shit, if a console doesn' t have better graphics, better sound, and better physics then it' s not " next gen" in our view. However, the shit that we fail to realize is that the thing that seperates games from music and movies is that we " PLAY" them. It' s the interaction that distinguishes games from the other mediums. So why has graphics become the benchmark in a medium where GAMEPLAY is the unique identifier? Who knows. Graphics should be the benchmark for movies and sound should be a benchmark for music. How backwards have we become?

Do we judge a music album based on the music video? Hell no, that doesn' t make sense since it' s the SOUND that matters. Do we judge a movie by how good the soundtrack is? Hell no, that doesn' t make sense since it' s the VISUAL PERFORMANCE that matters. Do we judge games primarily by how good the GRAPHICS are? Yes we do. In a medium where graphics should take a backseat to interactivity, the majority of us have been trained like Pavlov' s dogs to salivate at graphics and put gameplay in the backseat. Case in point: The whole MGS4 " unveiling" (or the whole PS3 unvieling for that matter). Like little trained monkies we jumped up and down at these graphics and claimed that " The next generation is here!" That' s stupid. I' m stupid. We' re all stupid. We' ve all been duped. Now most of us are all but ready to write-off a console that could be just what this stale fucking industry needs just because it doesn' t meet our bastardized benchmark of what constitutes a " next generation" console, namely better graphics. We' re a bunch of marketing tools for lazy developers who' d rather get rich by just improving visuals, animation and physics while giving us the same gameplay experience as the Playstation.

That' s like McDonalds adding one more piece of bread to the Bic Mac and calling it the " Next Generation of Burgers." Then they brainwash consumers into believing that a real next generation burger is taller than the rest. No matter that it tastes the fucking same as the regular Big Mac...it just looks better. That' s the way the game industry has trained us. We now believe that next generation games are games that primarily LOOK BETTER than previous games. The evidence is that companies like Sony get away with showing reels and reels of game movie footage (whether or not they are real-time or not is moot) and we get excited as if graphics are the foremost benchmark of a next generation console. It' s a fucking joke and this thread proves it.

But then again, it' s called VIDEO games. So I guess the visual aspect of it all does play an important part. But should it be more important than the interactive aspect. It is called video GAMES, you know GAMES that are played on a video screen. However, it seems that Sony/MS main aim is to make game VIDEOS.

So I guess this is what seperates the next generation of consoles. We have Nintendo with it' s VIDEO GAME machine and Sony and MS with their GAME VIDEO machines. Let' s just agree to create that distinction so that we don' t confuse ourselves."

Valid arguments and opinions, I suppose. Interesting read if nothing else. I personally feel that the progression of video games SHOULD push the graphical boundaries. They always have! From NES to SNES was like, " whoa!" . From SNES to N64 was like " OMG!" , and so on. The fact that Nintendo either doesn' t want to, or can' t compete in the Sony/Microsoft tech battle is fine, but to say that it SHOULDN' T happen is crap. I like my games as pretty as possible, dammit! I think that the Nintendo approach is definitely a positive thing. I feel that we need their kind of innovation in the industry as well.

On another note, it' s my opinion that good games CAN look pretty! People keep saying that we' re " sacrificing" gameplay for graphics, but have they played Condemned, Ridge Racer and Call of Duty 2 on the 360? These are awesome games to PLAY and to look at! Why must something that' s fun to play look ugly? I certainly haven' t experienced this. If nothing else, some of my favorite games as of late (Chronicles of Riddick, God of War, Resident Evil 4) are beautiful games. The look add so much to these games, that I can' t say I' m not enjoying the graphical wizardry that we were experiencing last gen, and that will continue, full force, into next gen!

Do we judge a movie by how good the soundtrack is? Hell no, that doesn' t make sense since it' s the VISUAL PERFORMANCE that matters.

Well for me it' s usually something called " the story" . But that' s just me. But movies are an all-encompasing form of entertainment. Story, visuals, and sound/music come together to form one kick ass piece of work. Games should be the same way. I agree that graphics aren' t the only area for improvement. That' s the philosophy behind the Xbox360, where we see the same old stale games that were on the original Xbox. I think the Revolution should support HD, but Nintendo is living in 1995 and doesn' t yet know of its existence.

God damn I hope the Revolution doesn' t make some childish noise when it starts up like the Gamecube does.

i know that was a good post, but did you have to post it twice? [the first time is in the rev topic]

God damn I hope the Revolution doesn' t make some childish noise when it starts up like the Gamecube does.

I have it on good authority that the Revolution start up sound will be that of little kids giggling.

If you pre-order the revolution on gamestop and ebgames you are forced to buy it bundled with Huggies Pull-Ups. You can also get the omega bunddle which includes a 27" color stereo sound TV!

That post sure is interesting but there r some things that are untrue or " not right" . Like CHeesaw said, there are plenty of good looking games with wicked gameplay out there. It' s not just about graphics, I dunno what he' s talking about. some companies may feel like that, but not all. I think Nintendo says that graphics are not important because I don' t think they actually could make a more powerful console for this-gen, so they say they didn' t want to. And because of this, a gamer gets excited and writes a looooong post on a forum...bah

That' s the philosophy behind the Xbox360, where we see the same old stale games that were on the original Xbox.

What are you talking about JoeRed. The 360 asn' t even been out for a month yet, and you' re making general comments on it. Seriously, let' s wait and see what they will offer, the launch games of a console do not set the standards for the games to come so be patient.

I think that this gen we will see better gameplay even on the 360 and ps3 (besides the rev) and better graphics, while, as the guy said, we will also see more madden and tony hawk type games. There is one thing i don' t understand though...why is he bashing madden. Not that I play madden, cuz im european and don' t like " football" even tho i live in canada, but to be honest a lot of my friends love madden 06 for the ps2 and xbox (not the stripped down 360 version). I' ve seen them play and I think the gameplay is pretty good and different. There is actual gameplay to the game, but just because it' s so popular, Arsynic puts it in the category of overrated big-budget games that are crap. While it is a big-budget game, it is not crap.

anyway, it seems that sony is chgallenging MS on online services. They will have better, apparently, online services, better than Xbox Live. It will be exciting to see if they come up with any cool features.

actually madden is crap. I could go on and on about how bad it is. the NFL 2k games were much better. If you compare the advancements in madden compared to the advancements in other games its just ridiculous how far behind madden is.
Almost every play in real football the player with the ball gets tackled by multiple people at once. In madden 06 on xbox 1 there were rare occasions where 2 people would tackle one person. By now there should be tons of people in on the tackles and once a player starts getting tackled everyone else shouldn' t start getting back in the huddle they should be getting in on the tackle until the whistle blows.
When I played the demo for madden 06 on xbox 360 I never saw any non 1 on 1 tackles.
By the way EA has the exclusive rights to the NFL so they can make as shitty of a game as they want.

I think Nintendo now plays an important role in the video game industry. I mean sure most of us can look at the REV (which is nothing more then a supped up xbox with Nintendo games) and think why do i need this when I have a ps3 or 360. But the fact remains that Nintendo has alot of appeal for younger gamers and parents looking to choose what console to buy their kid(s). Nintendo is a gateway into video games, kinda like the boy scouts that mentally conditions you to join the army (Sony/MS).

Well Im pretty disappointed with the launch titles on the 360 as well, which is Im sure part of the reason the original post was made! (Good post btw!)

Personally, Im still waiting for a game that pushes the immersion level of games (that includes graphics, sound etc.) but that also puts across an almost book-like level of story in a unique style.

That would have been hl2 imo, if you actually got to know any of the story throughout the game! Maybe Stalker will do it, but even tho the game idea is original, I have no idea what the story is going to be like...it might flop...I hope it doesnt.

I agree tho that original ideas by small devs get suffocated by big companies that want to go with guaranteed successes from their franchises. That' s partly due to competition for shelf space and consumer attention. With the advent of digital distribution however, shelf space is taken out of the picture altogether, and the only problem left is how to get consumer attention. Luckily the internet allows independent ideas to thrive. If there was one central place where people knew they could get independent, small budget games with more originality, completely parallel to big budget blockbusters, even small devs could make a living.

Digital distribution should allow more original games and at a cheaper price as well, due to lack of publishing costs. Setups like Steam are a step in the right direction i think. Im glad games like Rag Doll Kung Fu, and Darwinia are getting noticed this way, and dont cost £40 either. EA downloader on the other hand is just trying to stifle the whole thing. Their agenda isnt to allow this ' revolution' at all.

Nintendo, in the same way are trying to set up a parallel market, which doesnt have to compete with Sony/MS, just in the real world. Im only going to support this all the way.

I think that post is wrong. Sure, Sony and Microsoft are really aiming for better graphics but does that mean that their games have bad gameplay? I think FF7 was a huge graphical improvement compared to older FF games but so was the gameplay. It was not a revolution (God I' m getting tired of that word, I understand if Nintendo wants to change the name) but it was enough to keep me interested and to feel that more than just graphics had been improved. The same can be said about most big games like Virtua Fighter, Mario, Need for Speed, Metal Gear Solid, and so on. They have had great improvements on gameplay over the years. Believe it or not but you can actually improve graphics and gameplay at the same time! This guy just don' t see that. Better graphics isn' t everything but does it hurt to have better graphics? The answer is no. Why do we get so excited when we see the MGS4 video? Because we are expecting better gameplay as well, not just better graphics. But how do you show enhanced gameplay in a short trailer? He compares the video game industry with the movie industry but HELLO! What have the movie industry done in the last 100 years to evolve? Color TV, widescreen format, speciall effects. That' s pretty much it, a huge list of visual improvements. Dit it work? Did people keep their interest in movies? Yes they did. We are still intrerested in movies even though it' s mostly the visuals that have been improved because we know the good old formulas are still working: good acting and directing.
The same can be said about videogames. Visuals are part of gameplay and needs to be improved but since the old formulas are kept, and new are made, we just won' t get tired of videogames.

For all the people who are " disappointed" or " dislike" the launch lineup of the 360, how many of you have actually spent QUALITY time with the games? I' m not talking about standing at Walmart and playing King Kong, or watching online trailers, but actually sitting down, and playing the games for a while? It seems as though everyone who has spent time with the different titles has almost nothing but praise for them. But then again, you know what they say about opinions...

It' s funny; I was reading a review on a game that appeared on several platforms including the 360, and the reviewer made some comment like, " I was disappointed that just the graphics were improved on the 360. Yeah, it looks awesome, but it' s the same experience as on the other consoles." That guy seriously needs to get his head out from between his butt cheeks! What the F... did he expect?! That they were going to create a completely seperate and different game for the 360? It' s just the first round of games anyway! Right now it' s all about " potential" for a lot of the launch titles (especially sports). Yeah, games were " pushed" out for launch! Guess what folks? That' s the way it always has been, and always will be! I' m not saying it' s right, not that we should accept it. What you do, is what I did; buy the games that are FINISHED! I didn' t get any sports titles or Quake 4. Why? I KNEW that they weren' t finished with those games when they pushed them out the door. Easy as saying, " I' ll pass" !

Then again, some people will always have a bias toward SOMETHING! For me, it' s the latest and greatest! I like the " new hotness" but I know that some people prefer " old and busted" ! It' s all good!

I think a lot of people fail to realize how uneducated their " educated" opinion really is.