What would it be and why? Fanboys just constantly ruin my online forum experience. I can' t stand them. They' re like my kryptonite. Maybe it' s because I' ve spent most of my online life debating this and debating that that I' m flat out tired of watching fanboys cry.

Yeah, fanboys and corprate bitches (if you put that game on XBox or GC, we' ll sue you" - Sony to every developer they can. But seriously, any developer should be able to make games on XBox and P.C., PS2 can' t compete with the Specs of these 2.

Immortal: First of all, I' d be complaining far more about Microsoft than Sony, if I were you. MS has done nothing but bombard the gaming public with " most powerful system" ads...as if that has anything whatsoever to do with the games. MS is pandering to the " new-age" gamer that only cares about one thing- graphics. The real truth that everyone hates to face up to is that ALL 3 systems have almost identical-looking software. If you take any 10 random people off the street that don' t know a thing about video games, not a oine would be able to tell the difference. Hell, my parents had difficulty telling the difference between the Dreamcast and PSone. To people who don' t know (and don' t care), it all looks extraordinarily similar. And instead of being blinded by specs, it pays to just LOOK at what' s in front of you.

I' ve got news for you: Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, a game that may or may not be considered a " graphical powerhouse" by those who have no clue, looks just as good or better than 95% of anything that is on either of the other two systems. Gran Turismo 4 is guaranteed to push the limits even further.

Here' s another point- since the launch of both the Xbox and GC, why is it that the best graphical representations of that system are still around the the early days? Why is Halo still one of the best-looking games on the system? In nearly 2 1/2 years, the games have not advanced significantly in terms of visuals. The reason for this is quite simple- developers were used to the Xbox hardware (which, to them, was essentially 3-year-old PC hardware), and could tap into about 90-95% of the system' s power right from day 1.

Developers admitted to knowing next to nothing about the PS2 when it was launched, and that' s why they estimated that they could take advantage of less than HALF of its capabilities. Look at the launch titles: Fantavision, Wild Wild Racing, Smugglers Run, TTT...hell, you can even compare Madden 2001 and SSX to what is available now. Less than one year later, the system had DMC, GT 3, SH 2, and MGS 2. These were all at LEAST 30% better looking than those old launch titles.

So if there was one thing I could change about the industry, it would be the overblown " spec superiority" crap that Microsoft tosses around. In the end, the best-looking games on the PS2 compete very well with the best-looking games on the Xbox, and with developers continuing to drag more out of the PS2, and basically not doing anything more with the Xbox hardware (if anybody thinks that Ninja Gaiden looks any better than DoA 3, they' re sorely mistaken). In another year, the software will look even more similar.

Don' t buy in to all the numbers that get tossed at you. I have several friends who are computer engineers, and while the numbers always look impressive from MS, the one thing that they never tell you is that it only matters how those specs are IMPLEMENTED. In the end, it' s a moderately powerful Celeron processor under all those specs.

To top it all off, the only thing that matters is GAMES. Last I checked at GameFaqs, the GC had 15 games that have overall review scores over 90%, the Xbox 11, and the PS2...27. The PS2 outstrips the other two systems by an even larger ratio if you break it down to 80%+ reviews.

Specs? Hard drives? All cosmetic. Give me the GAMES.

Wow… that’s a lot of misinformation.

Immortal: First of all, I' d be complaining far more about Microsoft than Sony, if I were you. MS has done nothing but bombard the gaming public with " most powerful system" ads...as if that has anything whatsoever to do with the games.

And I remember Sony saying the PS2 will have Toy Story level graphics… I’m still waiting.

MS is pandering to the " new-age" gamer that only cares about one thing- graphics. The real truth that everyone hates to face up to is that ALL 3 systems have almost identical-looking software.

Yeah, if you want to compare ports and games from low-key developers. There are absolutely no games on the PS2 that can compete with the likes of DOA Ultimate, Halo 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc etc. The upper tier of the X-Box demolishes the PS2.

Hell, my parents had difficulty telling the difference between the Dreamcast and PSone.

Then again, a lot of parents still refer to videogame systems as “Nintendo”. So what your parents might think matters little.

And instead of being blinded by specs, it pays to just LOOK at what' s in front of you.

Been doing that in since the systems launched.

I' ve got news for you: Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, a game that may or may not be considered a " graphical powerhouse" by those who have no clue, looks just as good or better than 95% of anything that is on either of the other two systems. Gran Turismo 4 is guaranteed to push the limits even further.

Going Commando looks alright, but nothing special. GT4 looks better than PGR2 but only in artistic design (because PGR2 is FLAT in that department). But on a technical level PGR2 creams GT4.

Here' s another point- since the launch of both the Xbox and GC, why is it that the best graphical representations of that system are still around the the early days? Why is Halo still one of the best-looking games on the system?

Halo was in development years before it hit the X-Box. Most games don’t have a fraction of the time/money invested into them as Halo nor as talented developers. Plus, Halo has been surpassed many times over on a technical level. You’d have to be living under a gaming rock not to notice this.

The reason for this is quite simple- developers were used to the Xbox hardware (which, to them, was essentially 3-year-old PC hardware), and could tap into about 90-95% of the system' s power right from day 1.

Blah blah blah… the X-Box still has hands down the best graphics of any current system.

Developers admitted to knowing next to nothing about the PS2 when it was launched, and that' s why they estimated that they could take advantage of less than HALF of its capabilities. Look at the launch titles: Fantavision, Wild Wild Racing, Smugglers Run, TTT...hell, you can even compare Madden 2001 and SSX to what is available now. Less than one year later, the system had DMC, GT 3, SH 2, and MGS 2. These were all at LEAST 30% better looking than those old launch titles.

And Halo2 doesn’t blow Halo1 out of the water? PGR2 is nothing compared to PGR1? Splinter Cell level graphics were around at launch? Oh please… Both systems have enhanced graphically, but you’d have to be blind to not see the X-Box has a clear edge in graphics.

So if there was one thing I could change about the industry, it would be the overblown " spec superiority" crap that Microsoft tosses around.

Yeah… JUST LIKE SONY DID.

(if anybody thinks that Ninja Gaiden looks any better than DoA 3, they' re sorely mistaken). In another year, the software will look even more similar.

Wake up! NG is a much bigger game than DOA3. This is asking why VF4 has better character models than Halo. Well I don’t know, maybe it’s because Halo is 8 billion times it’s size. Same thing with DOA3 and NG.

To top it all off, the only thing that matters is GAMES. Last I checked at GameFaqs, the GC had 15 games that have overall review scores over 90%, the Xbox 11, and the PS2...27. The PS2 outstrips the other two systems by an even larger ratio if you break it down to 80%+ reviews.

Wow, running to Gamerankings to showcase a system’s worth. Seems like something a fanboy would do.... In fact, I didn' t see immortaldanmx make any mention of the quality of PS2 games.

Specs? Hard drives? All cosmetic. Give me the GAMES.

And while they' re at it, make sure you get a PS2 port, right?

You know lotusson, it' s funny. You claim to hate fanboys, yet all of your posts scream Xbox fanboy. Or at the very least, anti-PS2 fanboy. This sudden hostility towards Sony is a dead giveaway. Maybe you could tell the difference between my post and your post. Yours is designed to bash, mine is simply saying what I don' t like, which is fact anyway. Can you say " hypocrite" ?

Are you actually comparing games that aren' t even released yet to games that are? Are you really listing Halo 2? Heh...do you honestly believe it' ll come out this year? GT 4 might not even come out this year. I never said GT 4 looked better than anything, just that it will probably push the limits yet again. For YOU to say that PGR 2 " creams" GT 4, that could be the MOST FANBOYSIH COMMENT I' VE HEARD IN A LONG TIME. GT 4 isn' t even out yet.

You' re not looking at anything. Based on technical merit, there is VERY little about DoA 3 that is more impressive than games like MGS 2, DMC, ICO, and R&C. Silent Hill 3 has more detail and ingenuity than most anything, anywhere. Are you really one of those people that believe that the best-looking games on PS2 don' t look as good as the worst-looking games on the Xbox (or something equally inane)? Like, Kabuki Warriors and Pulse Racer look better than even middle-ground PS2 games? Give me a break.

It goes far beyond just my parents; that was only an example. The differences are MINIMAL, and always have been. Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 2 on the Xbox and PS2 are just about identical, in every way. This is one of the newest releases I can think of. Champions of Norrath on the PS2 (another brand new release), looks GREAT.

The problem is that you can' t seem to get the specs out of your head. Or are you going to deny that PS2 games now look no better than the launch titles (which would mean you' re clinically blind), and that Halo ISN' T still one of the best-looking games on the Xbox? Will you deny either?

Okay, compare Splinter Cell to Halo. Then compare Final Fantasy X to Tekken Tag. Compare PGR 2 to PGR 1, then compare GT 3 to Wild Wild Racing or Smugglers Run. Then tell me honestly that there is the SAME level of graphical enhancement. Let me reiterate- give me a BREAK.

Sony put up a PR campaign that sold the system. But not ONCE did they create an advertisement/campaign/slogan that pushed the SYSTEM instead of the GAMES. MS is so full of themselves that they' ve been crowing about the " most powerful system ever" since its inception, and completely ignoring the fact that it' s just a BIG PAPERWEIGHT without the games.

How about " AAA" exclusives? You know, ones that aren' t far superior on the PC over the Xbox anyway? Let' s see...you don' t have Halo anymore...no Splinter Cell, no FPS...that leaves you with PDO, KotoR, MechAssault, PGR 2, Deathrow, DoA 3, and I' ll also throw in Top Spin. PS2? FF X, FF X-2, TM: Black, GT 3, ICO, R&C 1, 2, Jak 1, 2, SOCOM I, II, DMC, Onimusha 2, Ace Combat 4, Silent Hill 3, UPCOMING exclusives for SH 4 and BOTH the GTA and MGS series...should I go on?

You want to talk diversity? Does the Xbox have ANY strategy games? PS2: Dynasty Tactics, Ring of Red, Kessen I, II, Romance of the Three Kingdoms VII, VIII, Disgaea: HoD. Rhythm/dance? Xbox: none PS2: Frequency, Amplitude, DDR Max 1, 2, Mad Maestro, Gitaroo-Man. RPGs? The Xbox has about four; the only two worth playing are Morrowind and KotoR, both available on PC. Oh, and BG: DA, which is on every other system. PS2: 40+, including FF, Suikoden III (soon, IV), Wild Arms 3, Dark Cloud 2, Legaia 2, .hack series, XenoSaga, Shadow Hearts, etc. Best platformers? What for the Xbox? Blinx? LOL PS2: They just have the best- the Jak and R&C series. Racing? PGR 2' s quasi-realistic gameplay will get ANNIHLATED by GT 4. And funny...NFS: Hot Pursuit 2 had the superior version on the PS2...hmm...

So...uhh...what does the Xbox actually HAVE? FPSs and a few other good action games. I have both systems. I have 32 PS2 games and 12 Xbox games. I know that the Xbox generally has better ports, and that' s why I have Max Payne 2 and Prince of Persia on that system, but it goes FAR beyond ports.

I' ve leveled this argument at the most ardent of xboys, and all they can do is throw back the " xbox rulez, sony suxxorz" pathetic argument. I know games, and I know where systems are lacking. You can' t even acknowledge strengths and weaknesses, and I have NO idea why you felt the need to bash Sony when MS is three times worse.

And you know what? Come to think of it, you' ve been anti-Sony since GamerWeb. Some people never change.

This sudden hostility towards Sony is a dead giveaway.

How many X-Box fanboys say stuff like,
“GT4 looks better than PGR2”
I can assure you, not many. If anything…

Can you say " hypocrite" ?

My entire post points out the hypocrisy in your argument, not against Sony. How can I have hostility towards Sony and praise their games at the same time? Answer me that.

I’m merely pointing out the numerous flaws/lies in your arguments. Don’t get mad yo!

Are you actually comparing games that aren' t even released yet to games that are?

Am I comparing the graphical quality of launch X-Box games to upcoming X-Box games? Yes I am. You don’t have to be a fanboy to look at a movie/screenshot and tell what game has better graphics.

Are you denying that Halo 2 has superior graphics than Halo 1?

Are you really listing Halo 2? Heh...do you honestly believe it' ll come out this year?

Even if it doesn’t come out this year does that mean it’s not coming out for the X-Box at all???

For YOU to say that PGR 2 " creams" GT 4, that could be the MOST FANBOYSIH COMMENT I' VE HEARD IN A LONG TIME. GT 4 isn' t even out yet.

Ooh! Selective quoting. My favorite fanboy tactic.
“GT4 looks better than PGR2”

Eat it homie. I flat out admitted GT4 looks better than PGR2, but because of it’s artistic design, NOT because GT4 is on the same technical level as PGR2.

Next time you should read a person’s entire sentence before replying. You might learn a thing or two.

You' re not looking at anything. Based on technical merit, there is VERY little about DoA 3 that is more impressive than games like MGS 2, DMC, ICO, and R&C.

Again, you’re comparing games that simply should not be compared. Trying to mismatch genres to fit your argument.

DOA3 = Small arena with two characters on screen.
MGS2, DMC, ICO = Multiple characters in huge-semihuge environments.

DOA3 looks better than all those games visually. But why not compare games within the same genre? Splinter Cell on the X-Box is superior to the PS2 version, looks better than DMC, MGS2, and MGS3. Better lighting, better textures, better everything.

The only real knock you can give to SC is poor character design despite superior technology. The characters in SC look lifeless. But that’s not because the X-Box can’t handle better looking characters designs. That’s because Ubisoft can’t design characters as good as Capcom.

One day I hope you learn the difference between technical graphics and artistic design. You may realize what I’m talking about.

Are you really one of those people that believe that the best-looking games on PS2 don' t look as good as the worst-looking games on the Xbox

Don’t put words in my mouth. Hell, you can barely put words in yours. Don’t speak for me. That last thing I want to hear is assumptions.

It goes far beyond just my parents; that was only an example. The differences are MINIMAL, and always have been. Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 2 on the Xbox and PS2 are just about identical, in every way.

Developers have rarely taken full advantage of the X-Box hardware when they port PS2 games. That’s a fact. You’re not speaking to a retard fathoms.

The problem is that you can' t seem to get the specs out of your head.

“GT4 looks better than PGR2”
I can’t get speaks out of my head despite thinking GT4 looks better despite not having the technical advantage… so sad…

Or are you going to deny that PS2 games now look no better than the launch titles (which would mean you' re clinically blind), and that Halo ISN' T still one of the best-looking games on the Xbox? Will you deny either?

Don’t put words in my mouth. Hell, you can barely put words in yours. Don’t speak for me. That last thing I want to hear is assumptions.

Sony put up a PR campaign that sold the system. But not ONCE did they create an advertisement/campaign/slogan that pushed the SYSTEM instead of the GAMES.

Forgotten about the PS9 commercials already?

BWAH HAHAHAHAHAH

P.S. “It’s Good To Play Together”

MS is so full of themselves that they' ve been crowing about the " most powerful system ever"

Toy Story level graphics homie…

completely ignoring the fact that it' s just a BIG PAPERWEIGHT without the games.

Well OMG, what insight! You’re right, MS don’t care about getting great games on their system at all. Guess that’s why they brought Rare and Bungie… because, you know, they produce good hardware.

How about " AAA" exclusives? You know, ones that aren' t far superior on the PC over the Xbox anyway?

Welcome to 2004 where PC games still aren’t considered direct competition for console games.

You want to talk diversity? Does the Xbox have ANY strategy games?

whoa whoa whoa… when did this become about the X-Box having a bigger library or more diverse library then the PS2? When did this become a PS2 vs X-Box argument at all?!?

Oh I know,

WHEN YOU THOUGHT THE PS2 WAS BEING ATTACKED SO YOU STARTED DEFENDING IT LIKE A BLIND FANBOY.

Bwah hahahahahaha

Sorry Fathoms, but no one here is knocking the PS2, I’m showing your BLATANT fanboyism.

And it’s quite obvious by reading your posts. Go read my last reply. Show me ONE spot where I talk about the quality or diversity of ANY PS2 games. You can’t. Know why? BECAUSE I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PS2. I’m talking about you and your blatant hypocrisy. The same things you bash MS for Sony has done the same thing. You’re pretending like the stuff never happened when you know damn well it’s true. And now I’ve painted you into a corner.

Bang fathoms… you’re dead. ^_-

So...uhh...what does the Xbox actually HAVE? FPSs and a few other good action games. I have both systems.

I’ve been playing the PS2 and X-Box since both of their respective launches. Nevertheless, your heavy PS2 bias is evident. It’s NOT about “just the games” with you.

THAT’S A DAMN LIE and it shows.

Your blatant hypocrisy is evidence of that. Bad mouthing MS for the SAME thing Sony has done.

Now that’s a goddamn shame and an obvious showing of fanboyism. That is, after all, what we used to call you at Gamerweb. ^_-

I' ve leveled this argument at the most ardent of xboys, and all they can do is throw back the " xbox rulez, sony suxxorz" pathetic argument.

You do realize that every time we’ve debated I’ve handed you your ass HARD, right? Much like what I’m doing now…

I know games, and I know where systems are lacking. You can' t even acknowledge strengths and weaknesses,

Blah blah blah… I’ve shown you up homeboy (again). I even admitted that the graphical “showcase” of the X-Box (PGR2) will be dethroned by GT4 (by artistic design of course), but I can’t acknowledge a system’s strength and weaknesses. Please…

and I have NO idea why you felt the need to bash Sony when MS is three times worse.

That’s the problem, I’m not bashing Sony and you can’t seem to realize that. I’m bashing your blatant hypocrisy (while taking the occasional cheap shot of course ^_-).

Example.

But not ONCE did they create an advertisement/campaign/slogan that pushed the SYSTEM

Which is a flat out lie since Sony HAS advertised the hardware via the PS9 commercial AND by saying the PS2 will have Toy Story level graphics. Sounds like hardware pushing to me.

Yet WE’RE the fanboys if we point out YOUR hypocrisy? I don’t think so.

And you know what? Come to think of it, you' ve been anti-Sony since GamerWeb. Some people never change.

I would love for you to find a handful of gamers who believe that. Go around, just ask. I’ve always been considered one of the most non-bias posters no matter where I go. If YOU think I’m a fanboy, I can live with that. Because we all KNOW you’re a fanboy and I’ve just proven that.

You’re even blatantly making a PS2vsX-Box debate out of what was originally just me pointing out the hypocrisy in your statements.

Now fathoms, you can get back up, but I’ll just knock you right back down again.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

P.S. Yes I am a better debater than you. Get over it.

" How many X-Box fanboys say stuff like,
“GT4 looks better than PGR2”
I can assure you, not many. If anything"

You said nothing of the kind. All you did is mention something about artistry. Your last statement-

" On a technical level, PGR 2 creams GT 4."

Maybe you could explain " technical" for me. What, you think I' d forget that last part?

" How can I have hostility towards Sony and praise their games at the same time? Answer me that."

You don' t praise their games. You haven' t done it once. All of your " most-anticipated," all of your posts about great games...where are these mythical posts on praise? You know, you never even existed in the Sony forum at GW. Only in the Sega, where you were a RAMPANT Sega fanboy (and still are), and then over to Xbox, boasting about the graphics.

" Am I comparing the graphical quality of launch X-Box games to upcoming X-Box games? Yes I am. You don’t have to be a fanboy to look at a movie/screenshot and tell what game has better graphics."

LOL Oh man...how long have you been playing games again? Are you really putting all your faith in screenshots? You' ve never touched it, never seen it on your television, and yet, you take SCREENSHOTS as gospel? Wow...glad you' re not doing previews.

" Are you denying that Halo 2 has superior graphics than Halo 1?"

SHOW ME THE GAME, AND NOT SCREENSHOTS, AND I' LL LET YOU KNOW.

" Even if it doesn’t come out this year does that mean it’s not coming out for the X-Box at all???"

What? When did I say that? But let' s see, the DelayBox has been able to push Brute Force (' cough' Brute Flop ' cough' ) for over a year, Morrowind for six months, Ninja Gaiden for over TWO years, KotoR for TWO years, Sudeki into some other plane of existence, and Fable...heh...going on THREE years since it was first announced as Project Ego back in 2001. Halo 2? First April...then June...now November. And it' s only just beginning...

" I flat out admitted GT4 looks better than PGR2, but because of it’s artistic design, NOT because GT4 is on the same technical level as PGR2."

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?! So...a game can look better than another when it' s technically inferior? What in God' s name are you babbling about? I, unlike you, don' t take screenshots as gospel. I don' t know if GT 4' s graphics will be the best thing since sliced bread, but I' m about 99.9% sure that it' s gameplay will be FAR superior to that of PGR 2, in terms of simulation. Or...are you going to tell me that graphics are now more important than gameplay? Wouldn' t be surprised...

No one is " knocking" the PS2? You' re an idiot. Plain and simple. You spent your ENTIRE last post bashing relentlessly...and I' m not even sure why. YOU leapt to bash, I did not do anything. It' s always been about games, and ODD that you didn' t reply to that part! Let' s try again, shall we? By genre, the system' s best games-

RPGs:

Xbox- KotoR, Morrowind (both on PC), and BG: DA II (on PS2, and looking and playing identical). Yay. KotoR was great, but you' re gonna need a LOT more than that to compete with...

PS2- 40+. Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2, Suikoden III, Wild Arms 3, Legaia 2: Duel Saga, Dark Cloud 2, XenoSaga, .hack series, Shadow Hearts......it just keeps going. All very different with entirely different formats, style, and story/character development. Some real-time, some turn-based.

Strategy:

Xbox- Uhh...none. Does it have Gladius? Maybe...I don' t really remember. Want to say one?

PS2- Romance of the Three Kingdoms VII, VIII, Gladius, Disgaea: HoD, Ring of Red, Kessen I, II, Dynasty Tactics. Again, extremely diverse.

Platformer:

Xbox- Hmm...Blinx? What am I missing?

PS2- The two best are both here, with some of the highest scores of any game on any system this generation. Jak and Daxter, Jak II, and R&C, and R&C 2. But there' s also Sly Racoon and Kya: Dark Lineage just to add some more spice.

Racing- Best vs. best? PGR 2 vs. GT 3? Or, better yet, PGR 2 vs. GT 4? Well, GT 4 ain' t out yet, but isn' t it hilarious how most will say that GT 3 is better than PGR 2? The best version of NFS: Hot Pursuit 2? On PS2. The Burnout series is on both systems, and while it does look better on XBox, it' s another one of those games that MS might try to get exclusive. I suppose it depends on your tastes, but this is almost a tie.

Rhythm/Dance:

Xbox- Yeah, none.

PS2- Frequency, DDR: Max 1, 2, Mad Maestro, Gitaroo-Man, Amplitude. Find me a bad review of any ONE of these.

FPS is the only genre, like I said before, where the Xbox is a clear winner. Hell, it' s basically why I HAVE the system. UC, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Halo, etc. I like playing them more on consoles anyway; they look and play just about the same on Xbox, IMO. HOWEVER, let' s not forget games like Red Faction and TimeSplitters and Medal of Honor that were fantastic before Xbox came along. Just because we have something better now, it doesn' t degrade the quality of these others.

Action/Adventure/Survival/Horror/Other:

The biggest set. Now tell me what on Xbox is as good as Silent Hill 3 or RE: CV X? It got SH 2, but somehow stopped there. Silent Hill 4 (YOU LIKE SCREENSHOTS SO MUCH, go check them out) will be exclusive. Devil May Cry was the bench mark for YEARS. Xbox got Otogi out, but it' s Ninja Gaiden that they needed. Deathrow is under-appreciated just about everywhere, but then again, so are games like ICO, Ace Combat 4, and Twisted Metal: Black. All out in 2001, all still great. Onimusha 2 was MUCH better than the original (which is all Xbox has), and one of the best action games of this generation. Champions of Norrath is garnering some of the highest review scores I' ve seen ANYWHERE...where is it on Xbox?

And what about GTA? I beat GTA III two full YEARS before it ever saw the light of day on Xbox. And GTA 4 was just announced as being exclusive to the PS2, along with the next MGS. I suppose this doesn' t mean anything?

Gamerankings includes the good, the bad, and the ugly, and they SHOULD throw out outliers. But you know what? In the end, it' s just all the reviews they can find, lumped together and averaged. I won' t even put the numbers up, as they would embarrass you no end. But let' s just say that it' s about a 3:1 ratio as far as the most good games are concerned...

ADDRESS THIS. Until then, your moronic laughing means nothing.

" How many X-Box fanboys say stuff like,
“GT4 looks better than PGR2”
I can assure you, not many. If anything"

You said nothing of the kind. All you did is mention something about artistry. Your last statement-

A flat out lie.

GT4 looks better than PGR2 but only in artistic design (because PGR2 is FLAT in that department). But on a technical level PGR2 creams GT4.

Glasses. Get them.

" On a technical level, PGR 2 creams GT 4." Maybe you could explain " technical" for me. What, you think I' d forget that last part?

Better lighting, better textures, bump mapping, etc etc. But textures do not make graphics. And I’ll let you figure out what that means.

" How can I have hostility towards Sony and praise their games at the same time? Answer me that.”

You don' t praise their games. You haven' t done it once.

Are you purposely blind or just dumb?!? I’ve praised GT4 SEVERAL times already. Why is it you’re just not reading I don’t know.

And maybe… just maybe…

I’m not praising a lot of games because I’M NOT talking about the games. I’m talking about YOU and your hypocrisy.

All of your " most-anticipated," all of your posts about great games...where are these mythical posts on praise?

WTF are you talking about Fathoms?

Time for some small history of the thread

immortaldanmx bitches about Sony’s number crunching
Fathoms reply saying Sony is innocent and MS is the big baddy
Lotusson shoots down that argument
Fathoms starts talking about game quality and hypothetical situations
Why?
I don’t know why, but you just keep getting owned hard.

You know, you never even existed in the Sony forum at GW.

And you never existed in the X-Box forum and only entered the Sega forum to bash the Dreamcast. So what have you proven? You don’t know jack about the history of Segaweb and are a blatant liar.

Only in the Sega, where you were a RAMPANT Sega fanboy (and still are), and then over to Xbox, boasting about the graphics.

Prove it or shut up. I’ve JUST shown how much of a pathetic fanboy you are, and I still know quite a few people who can back me up. I’d love for you to find someone who considers me a fanboy.

Let me just give you a link to show how incredibly dumb you are.

LOOK

And do you remember the “Sonic Adventure 2 looks like garbage” post I made in Segaweb where the forum flamed me? Oh wait, I guess you wouldn’t because you never entered the Segaweb forum except to flame.

Fanboy? Please. Go huddle up with a dildo and cry yourself to sleep.

" Am I comparing the graphical quality of launch X-Box games to upcoming X-Box games? Yes I am. You don’t have to be a fanboy to look at a movie/screenshot and tell what game has better graphics."

LOL Oh man...how long have you been playing games again? Are you really putting all your faith in screenshots? You' ve never touched it, never seen it on your television, and yet, you take SCREENSHOTS as gospel? Wow...glad you' re not doing previews.

WTF are you smoking? Seriously. You’re saying perhaps some of the most ignorant stuff ever.

" Are you denying that Halo 2 has superior graphics than Halo 1?"

SHOW ME THE GAME, AND NOT SCREENSHOTS, AND I' LL LET YOU KNOW.

Umm…. you do realize that Bungie showcased a level at E3 in REAL-TIME, right??????

“SHOW ME THE GAME”

Bwah hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

They already have dumbarse!!!!

" Even if it doesn’t come out this year does that mean it’s not coming out for the X-Box at all???"

What? When did I say that? But let' s see, the DelayBox

System name calling? Wow! Straight fanboyism. It’s nice to see where you’re coming from.

" I flat out admitted GT4 looks better than PGR2, but because of it’s artistic design, NOT because GT4 is on the same technical level as PGR2."

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!

It means that my mind is WAY more open than yours will ever be. It also means you can’t use the quote feature to save your life. It also means that I’m not hung up on X-Box only games. It also means you have no idea what the difference is in artistic design and technical graphics. It shows you’re a pathetic fanboy who likes to pretend he’s smarter than what he really is.

No one is " knocking" the PS2? You' re an idiot. Plain and simple.

BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You spent your ENTIRE last post bashing relentlessly...

Yes, bashing YOU. Not Sony.

and I' m not even sure why.

A) Because it’s fun to bash your hypocrisy, lies, and fanboyism.
B) Because I have little respect for you
C) Because I can. Got a problem with it?

Let' s try again, shall we?

Lets not.

FATHOM, I’M TALKING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR GOD DAMN LIES AND BLATANT FANBOYISM.

Silly child, why won’t you learn?

Delaybox – Check
Hypocrisy – Check
Lying – Check

You’re a fanboy and it shows. I’ve shown this way more than I have too.

By genre, the system' s best games-

FATHOM, I’M TALKING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR GOD DAMN LIES AND BLATANT FANBOYISM.

Silly child, why won’t you learn?

Delaybox – Check
Hypocrisy – Check
Lying – Check

You’re a fanboy and it shows. I’ve shown this way more than I have too.

*yes I meant to post that twice*

And I’m ignoring your “game list” comparison? HELL YEAH
A) It’s bias
B) That’s not the point of the conversation
C) I never said the X-Box had a wider range of titles. In fact, NO ONE said that.

Unless you have some evidence somewhere….Dead silence? I thought so.

ADDRESS THIS. Until then, your moronic laughing means nothing.

Fathoms, look, I know you think you’re owning somebody, but your not. I’m being serious here. You’ve lied. You’ve shown blatant hypocrisy. You’ve denied my points. Didn’t even address most of my points about your fanboyism anyway. You’re pathetic.

You can call me a fanboy, but coming from you it means absolutely nothing. No one considers me a fanboy, no one. After all, did I go around slamming the PS2/Gamecube? I didn’t start system name calling, did I? I didn’t scream out POS2 and Kidcube did I? No. That is something you did.

I entered this thread to defend immortaldanmx because you posted an obvious hypocritical argument and I flat out proved so. My purpose in this thread was done long ago. I’ve brought to the surface the fanboy you always were. Nothing has changed since Gamerweb/Segaweb. Nothing. You’re still pretending to be some high and mighty game guru, but you’re not. Dude, I’ve dog walked you every time we debated. I’m doing it now. I’m your natural Achilles’ heel. Every time you tried to run someone over I’ve had to clips your legs from underneath you. I’ve done it before and I’m doing it now. You’ve been acting this way for years now. Really it’s quite sad. Your inability to evolve beyond your own shadowed mind is disturbing.

Frankly Fathoms, I’ve moved onto bigger things than defending system A over system B. Hell, even at Segaweb I mostly left the system wars to other people. But look at you – you’re still stuck in 1999. Still fighting the same war. Still looking to promote the PS2 first chance you get. Dude, I’m so far beyond you that you should be taking notes while warming my bath water.

The fact is Fathoms… I’m better than you. Ego and all. And no one really disagrees with that.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

P.S. Fix your post son. It looks sloppy.

In fact, since I' m such a nice guy (and frankly, I can only own you so much in one thread) I' ll even LET you have the last word.

Go on old chap, take your best shot. I' ve made you look dumb in several different flavors. I think it' s time I let you off the hook.

Heh...awesome. I' ve never actually been involved in an argument when the other person wins it FOR me. LOL

You' ve stated, time and time again, that it' s supposedly " all about the games." And yet, you continually refuse to even talk about them. You won' t even bother with it. The list is " biased" ? Yeah? Are all reviewers biased too? Wanna play a game? You name one great Xbox game, I' ll name three great PS2 games. Guess who runs out of games to list first? C' mon, let' s play. No xboy ever does, though. How strange...

Other than that, you just ramble on about how much I' m a fanboy. You' re clueless, and always have been, in that respect. See, it doesn' t really matter if I' ve been playing games since ' 82 and Pong. It doesn' t matter that I' ve spent the last two months solid on my Xbox (Max Payne 2, Prince of Persia, Deus Ex: IW), and only now just got to Champions of Norrath on PS2. It doesn' t matter that I have both systems, enjoy both systems, and have no problem with people who prefer one over the other. You' d just say " fanboy" anyway. And therefore, YOU are the disease of forums that continually label for no apparent reason, and based on nothing.

Oh, and do me a favor- better lighting, better textures, better bump-mapping, better this, better that...and yet, you' re PRAISING GT 4? WHERE?! Artistry? And you' re STILL telling me that PGR 2 has " better" everything when GT 4 isn' t even OUT yet? Holy crap...you' re dumber than a post.

Why don' t you just flat-out admit that you' re anti-Sony, and always have been? Is this a problem for you? Does this make you feel insecure? " Beyond" me? LOL I haven' t " defended" anything for years...but when idiots like you rear their ugly head, proclaiming that " fanboys" are what they hate when they INSTANTLY leap to bash a system, I' ll rise up. Your anti-views are the CANCER of this industry. And the whole graphic-whore thing is just too obvious. I' ve been a member of several forums, and whether or not you care to believe it, I' m just about the most unbiased member in all of them. But I don' t take kindly to posts like yours. You COULD' VE just addressed the problems that MS is facing (I suppose you think that I think that Sony has no problems), instead of LEAPING (you like that word) to their defense, and at the same time, bashing the PS2.

It' s too easy to put you down, though...maybe you should learn the art of debate. You know, conceding points (which I do, and you don' t), not talking in circles (yeah, better every-aspect-of-graphics except artistry, but I' m still " praising" GT 4!), and completely avoiding the major issue which you yourself claim is the biggest of all: the GAMES.

Too bad, really. I thought you' d be better than this. You know, given that you' re such a " gamer" and all. ' rolling eyes'

One last thing- SHOW ME WHERE I " LIED" .

Heh...awesome. I' ve never actually been involved in an argument when the other person wins it FOR me. LOL

I' ve never seen you in an argument where you' ve won!

You' re so sad it' s.... well it' s sad. But I said you can have the last word and you did. Funny you wasted it taking cheap shots instead of proving me wrong. And there' s nothing better than when people call me a fanboy, because they always do it as a desperate attempt to save face. Really, this whole thread has been beautiful. A classic example of what lotusson -- lotusson. Only the old school lotusson' s posts would have been about 2 times longer and mocked you less. But damn it' s fun to make fun of you. It' s so easy.

But I will say this about your last reply. You say it' s all about " the games"

Then why are you using the games to showcase the superiority of " the system"

If you were really about the games, wouldn' t your post be void of the word " PS2...." ?

Peace

A Sore Winner
- The Lotus One

Woah...you' ve been destroyed so bad. Don' t cry, though.

Let' s tick them off-

- I asked you to address the game situation on both systems, seeing as how you went out of your way to bash the PS2 and its graphics. Your response? Nothing.

- I asked you to show me where I " lied." You didn' t, and in fact, couldn' t.

- I asked you to explain where your " praise" of GT 4 was, and how it works when you provide a full list of reasons as to why PGR 2 is " technically superior" to a game that isn' t even OUT yet. Again, nothing. More personal attacks.

- I provided a challenge, which you couldn' t handle. You ignored it. Three games for every one...it would' ve been fun.

- I said it was all about the games, and provided games. You tried to say the same thing, and it was lost amidst a torrent of immaturity. Oh, and no games.

- I stated why there was no reason for you to call me a " fanboy." As usual, it was ignored. It always is, when false accusations go awry, and you realize you' re just being an asshat. Of course, I' m supposed to believe you in your claims of " unbiasness" , when you' ve ALWAYS been anti-Sony, and can' t even admit it.

It' s called 100% defeat. You can laugh and mock and pretend you' re smarter than you really are, but it all comes down to this. Debates consist of one side providing a statement and the other responding to that statement. You just ignored the entire debate, addressed nothing, and flamed me, as if I was ever part of the argument in the first place. Take your medicine and swallow, fanboy. I do it every day. LOL

Woah...you' ve been destroyed so bad. Don' t cry, though.

Destroyed? Bwah hahahahahha

Most of the things you just listed I' ve already debated or told you that' s not my point. Why address points I' m not talking about? Why repeat what I' ve already said? I' ve already said I' m done, so what I do not want to do is start debating again. The reason I' m dropping out is easy, because I' ve proven what I needed to prove. Your bringing up many points which are totally off what I set out to prove, and that' s okay. But I sat out to prove you' re a hypocrite and a fanboy and I' ve shown that. It' s time to move on.

Flat out, you got owned. Like, you say it' s all about the games -- and that' s why the PS2 is better than the X-Box -- Fathoms! LISTEN!!!!!!!!! We can see past your bull. Your talk about " just the games" is a front. I stated A LONG TIME AGO this wasn' t about PS2 vs X-Box. This thread is about YOU. YOU. YOU. How many times do I have to say that?! It' s always been about you and it never stopped being about you. Not Sony. Not Microsoft. YOU!

Are... are you listening to me man! I' ve flat out proved my point. I don' t have anything left to prove and I' m not worried about you calling me a fanboy because I know no one is going to take you seriously. In fact, no one is taking you seriously. That is why this thread is over with. Because that which needed to be shown has been shown. Just look at how quickly YOU turned this into a PS2 vs X-Box debate. Why? In a thread about hypocrisy you posted the most irrelevant argument. That is why I' m not worried about what you say, that is why I' m not worried about letting you have the last word, because I know people can see this thread for themselves and make up their own minds.

In the end Fathoms, if you' re going to attack other members, do it with some truth and honesty. Take a step back, re-examine what was said. Rethink what you are thinking. Don' t be so quick to pass judgment on others without passing it on yourself. You can' t push your agenda on people, force them to conform, pretend you' re doing nothing wrong. It doesn' t fly. That is why I want this thread to stand as is, because I have nothing to hide. I’m not out to promote the X-Box, to “prove” why it’s superior to the PS2. I’m just here smacking down a fanboy. It’s actually my new favorite debating tactic. Just letting people talk until they prove me right. I said you were a fanboy, and now anyone who reads this thread will know exactly what I’m talking about.

If I call you a fanboy, people are going to nod because they can see and read what just transpired.

If you call me a fanboy, no one is taking it seriously.

That is really all I sat out to do.

And now, my work is done.

The One, The only One
- The Lotus One

P.S. Neener neener neener

YOU made it about me. I was addressing the TOPIC. YOU attacked me. NOT the other way around. YOU turned it into a flame war; you COULD' VE addressed the topic at hand, and responded intelligently. YOU want to try to flame me, I never had any intention of that. YOU decided it would be best to ignore my attempts at turning the debate into something WORTH talking about, YOU, with your massive ego, decided that the all-knowing lotusson should " take me down," for no apparent reason.

Consequently, you were the one taken down.

Will you, or will you not admit, that you' re heavily biased against Sony? If not, this is over. You' re too blind to be worth my time.

Oh, and by the way, I keep in touch with several old members of GW through e-mail (three, to be precise). We' ve been chatting about games in this way for years.

You say that " everyone knows you' re unbiased," and yet these THREE remember you as, and I quote, " one of the biggest Sega fanboys in existence, and worse, one of the biggest Sony haters in existence."

See, we remember. You, apparently, don' t. The funny part is that one of them is a die-hard Sega fan himself, and even HE can' t stand you. One of them just said that he' s pretty sure none of us could find ONE post of your so-called " Sony praise," here, or anywhere else. I' m inclined to agree.

WANT THE E-MAILS?

I was addressing the TOPIC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Immortal: First of all, I' d be complaining far more about Microsoft than Sony, if I were you. MS has done nothing but bombard the gaming public with " most powerful system" ads...as if that has anything whatsoever to do with the games. MS is pandering to the " new-age" gamer that only cares about one thing- graphics. The real truth that everyone hates to face up to is that ALL 3 systems have almost identical-looking software. If you take any 10 random people off the street that don' t know a thing about video games, not a oine would be able to tell the difference. Hell, my parents had difficulty telling the difference between the Dreamcast and PSone. To people who don' t know (and don' t care), it all looks extraordinarily similar. And instead of being blinded by specs, it pays to just LOOK at what' s in front of you.

I' ve got news for you: Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando, a game that may or may not be considered a " graphical powerhouse" by those who have no clue, looks just as good or better than 95% of anything that is on either of the other two systems. Gran Turismo 4 is guaranteed to push the limits even further.

Here' s another point- since the launch of both the Xbox and GC, why is it that the best graphical representations of that system are still around the the early days? Why is Halo still one of the best-looking games on the system? In nearly 2 1/2 years, the games have not advanced significantly in terms of visuals. The reason for this is quite simple- developers were used to the Xbox hardware (which, to them, was essentially 3-year-old PC hardware), and could tap into about 90-95% of the system' s power right from day 1.

Developers admitted to knowing next to nothing about the PS2 when it was launched, and that' s why they estimated that they could take advantage of less than HALF of its capabilities. Look at the launch titles: Fantavision, Wild Wild Racing, Smugglers Run, TTT...hell, you can even compare Madden 2001 and SSX to what is available now. Less than one year later, the system had DMC, GT 3, SH 2, and MGS 2. These were all at LEAST 30% better looking than those old launch titles.

So if there was one thing I could change about the industry, it would be the overblown " spec superiority" crap that Microsoft tosses around. In the end, the best-looking games on the PS2 compete very well with the best-looking games on the Xbox, and with developers continuing to drag more out of the PS2, and basically not doing anything more with the Xbox hardware (if anybody thinks that Ninja Gaiden looks any better than DoA 3, they' re sorely mistaken). In another year, the software will look even more similar.

Don' t buy in to all the numbers that get tossed at you. I have several friends who are computer engineers, and while the numbers always look impressive from MS, the one thing that they never tell you is that it only matters how those specs are IMPLEMENTED. In the end, it' s a moderately powerful Celeron processor under all those specs.

To top it all off, the only thing that matters is GAMES. Last I checked at GameFaqs, the GC had 15 games that have overall review scores over 90%, the Xbox 11, and the PS2...27. The PS2 outstrips the other two systems by an even larger ratio if you break it down to 80%+ reviews.

Specs? Hard drives? All cosmetic. Give me the GAMES.

Sure you was homie. Sure you was.

Yeah, I was. I stated the one thing I didn' t want to deal with anymore. It' s right there. Or perhaps you missed that...?

Sure you don' t want the e-mails? You don' t have NEARLY as good a reputation as you seem to think, fanboy.

Sure you don' t want the e-mails? You don' t have NEARLY as good a reputation as you seem to think, fanboy.

See, we remember. You, apparently, don' t. The funny part is that one of them is a die-hard Sega fan himself, and even HE can' t stand you. One of them just said that he' s pretty sure none of us could find ONE post of your so-called " Sony praise," here, or anywhere else. I' m inclined to agree.

One person in particular rings a bell as he had an insane hatred for me ever since Sonic Adventure 2 fiasco. Can' t remember his username though. I know he stalked me but good.

Regardles, I question the legitmacy of 4 year old emails, but if you so wish to post them - do so.

It' s not like anyone is going to care.

Ah...they' re not four years old. They' re as of NOW. Your latest little anti-Sony outburst got me to thinking...hey, I think I' ve seen this before from this guy. And I clearly wasn' t wrong.

You needed to bash Sony and the PS2, so you did. All I did was address the topic. Then you turned it into a personal flame war. All you lotusson. All you.

Can you admit your bias yet?

Can you admit your bias yet?

tsk tsk tsk. It' s obvious we learned nothing here. Sony bias? Ha!

Like I said earlier. I' ll let people make up their own mind about me.

They can read this thread and see. I have nothing to hide.