Shenmue update

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Adam Doree
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Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 01:59


You guys may as well be the first to know. This from me might be posted on Dojo soon [no up http://shenmue.planets.gamespy.com/], so here goes:

---

> Can you clarify what you will try to update us on?

Hey

To clarify, what I meant was I wanted to get clarification on something I
heard a couple of days ago, which is that yes, Shenmue Online is ***ed and
Suzuki' s status is, once again, up in the air, which counts Shenmue III
totally out of the picture right now. This is confirmed, it seems. I am not
running any story on it.

Yeah Neil did do stuff for us in the earlier days of Kikizo, and though I
don' t specifically remember saying it to him, yeah I have said those words
to plenty of people; I regret publishing that story to an extent because as
stone-solid true and genuine as our source was - someone who was and still
is on the production side at AM2 - quite well known but not publicly enough
(in the west) for anyone on your forum to have ever guessed correctly -
things changed rapidly during and afterwards of publishing the story, and
most short-sighted people following the story blame us for inaccurate
reporting. Our reporting was fair and the facts were true; Sega' s
consistency, communication to RHQs, and perhaps decisions, were not. SoA' s
flat out denial was hilarious to me. It' s a big company and the fact that
then-PR people in America had no idea of the status of something we had been
following more intimately than they had, for ages, I have to say, came as no
surprise.

Reporting on something that is such a distant (2-3 year) possibility from
provable fruition, in the light that it MIGHT get an announcement more
imminently than that, when we cannot name a source and offer no evidence,
and offer just our word for it, was a bad idea. It harmed my/our reputation,
Kikizo' s name and the rest of it. We' re only publishing exclusive news ever
since then when a) it can be revealed as obviously true soon afterwards
(many times this has happened for us - including Sega scoops); or b, we can
quote and name our source, and then if it' s bullshit it' s their fault for
lying, not ours (Case in point, Ogawa denying Nights about a week before it
was announced - Rest. Case.). It was a valuable lesson. I know plenty of
things that falls into neither a) nor b) to be true right now about all
kinds of game stories that would be big, and would simply not publish them
for this reason. Companies change minds, companies lie, companies will say
media is lying to make them look better, and so on.

As for Shenmue, I would have to say at this stage, it is worth forgetting
about. If all the fans get any rich relatives together and channel it though
Dojo perhaps we could buy rights, hire Suzuki (he' d likely say yes) and
independently make the game under license from Sega at no risk to them. That
is the only way it will get made at this stage I think.

You can post these comments if you like

Sorry about this.
Adam


> You sure it' s okay for me to post this? It' s like a nail in the coffin for us.

If it' s the whole quote, I don' t see what further harm it can do, I mean it
should go without saying I still stand by the article, but right now it
certainly does not look like any of it is headed the way I certainly hoped
it would, and could have gone, at the stage it was published (and I believe
the facts reported were made clearly distinct from my own ' hopes' at the
time). AM2 was not lying to us and we were not lying to the fans. Anyone who
knows anything about Sega knows there have been a lot of changes with the
company and this latest news, which I just learned on Monday, is all I have
to go by at this time... I never set out to say what people want to hear,
but to report what we can verify as fact, and this includes the bad news to
you guys, in this case. I am still of the view, never say never; there are a
million examples of dead IP resurrected. As it stands today though, Shenmue
appears to be a dead, or shelved, IP as far as Sega Sammy is concerned. And
this development only came to be obvious within SOJ in the last month or so
from what I understand.

It' s a good job I never ran a story claiming that Propeller Arena would
definitely hit shelves when it was 100% complete. Imagine.

We guaranteed the date Sonic next-gen would be revealed, where, and how. We
guaranteed VF5 would come to 360. We have the best track record of Sega
interviews of anyone in the world. And when we can' t report something I try
my best to sneak in hints into stories, just for Sega fans.

As for the Shenmue fans' view of Kikizo, all I can say is we have done our
best to keep them updated the whole way along - on the site and behind the
scenes - Suzuki has not spoken to any western media apart from Kikizo in
like 5 years - people would not believe how difficult that is to pull off
with the way Sega is nowadays - so please respect what we have tried to do,
but at the end of the day, I do not run Sega.

Frankly Sega has been akin to religion for me since I was 8 and also changed
my life, and I simply would not play with people' s feelings on this stuff.

There' s one last thing which I have known for a while but still can' t spell
out; but, in the right circumstances, it wouldn' t surprise me if Sega sold
off the rights for this IP and somebody went with those rights. Just look at
Prope. One benefit of Sega Sammy is greater flexibility in how to pursue IP
both old and new. In other words, we' re back to square one because it is
still as likely to see light of day as not, if you adjust your perspective.
That is why the last time we spoke I alluded there is hope even if it might
not be reached in the way people might assume was the only way. But for now,
Shenmue fans should chill for a year or two and assume the worst while
hoping for the best.

Virtua fighter 5
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 02:02
Oh well.
Currently playing:
Korg DS 10 (ds) /  Metal Slug 7 (ds)
Rhythm Heaven (ds) /  Fire Emblem (ds)
Super Stardust HD (psn) /  Virtua Fighter 5 (360)
FSX (P

ginjirou
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 02:05
In other words,
Chances of a Sega made Shenmue III: 0%
Chances of a xxxx made Shenmue III: 10%

I fear this will cause mass suicide among hardcore Sega fans
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DontPeeOnBilly
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 02:23
Yep, Kikizo is the victim and Sega is the angry, abusive, spouse. Will crackers be served with the cheese and whine?

You take risks as a journalist, you' re on the map for Sega news and only for that. You trash Sony products in the guise of journalism and you seem to be focused mainly on Sega related news. This gets you brownie points in certain communities who come to your site and trip on your ads. Nobody could care about how legit you are, they only care about what the stuff the site contains.

Much like game journalists, except more important and more talented artists, game developers have certain standards of which they abide. If some guy decided a leak was important he wasn' t doing it at some guaranteed assurance of his company or some calculated risk, he was doing what he felt right at the time. The threat to " out" this source is a blind threat, because the second you would bite the hand that fed you you would be ousted and your sources would leave and your site would fail. Don' t pretend like you' re the moral being in this one.

Seriously Kikizo, grow some testes. It' s gotten to the point where journalistic whining becomes a burden on everybody related to the industry. Being a pussy about this won' t help your image, and I' m pretty sure you' ll lose the Sega fanboy support you' ve been getting for a long time if you continue down this path of " blame them, not us."

There are many things I respect about Kikizo, but this post and denial of guilt isn' t a high point in Kikizo' s existence.

QuezcatoL
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 02:24
The thing was.
Sammy is losing tons of millions how in our world could we even dream about a Shenmue game?

The only way SEGA would made that game was if they floruished.
Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ys
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 02:53
Bad news of course but not unexpected at all. I mean, it' s quite obvious from the way Sega talk (or rather not talk )about Shenmue of course. And the way they seem to treat Suzuki tells a lot too.

I' m a bit disappointed that Shenmue Online is in this situation too though. I just wanted to see how it turned out actually. And what about the big amount of money that they spended on the game? And all the so called extra man power they hired to complete it. Plus the fact that they reassured us that it was well on its way. It didn' t show up at a Chinese game show recently which told a lot of course.

And it all became obvious within the last month or so? Isn' t this around the same time Sammy took over totally?

Adam Doree
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 03:02


ORIGINAL: DontPeeOnBilly
...


I think you' re missing the point a bit. And to claim Kikizo is anti-Sony, and only " on the map" for Sega related stuff is ... well nonsense.

DontPeeOnBilly
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 03:16

I think you' re missing the point a bit. And to claim Kikizo is anti-Sony, and only " on the map" for Sega related stuff is ... well nonsense.


No, I read the part where you tried to absolve yourself from blame in an appeal to the fanboy echelon. Your editorializing against Sony is blatantly obvious and I' ve pointed it out before. You don' t want to take responsibility for being wrong. Blame other people.

Oh, and people are here because of your exclusive Sega news, which I' m guessing is going to be cut off shortly from your insiders.

alijay034
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 03:19


ORIGINAL: DontPeeOnBilly

Yep, Kikizo is the victim and Sega is the angry, abusive, spouse. Will crackers be served with the cheese and whine?

You take risks as a journalist, you' re on the map for Sega news and only for that. You trash Sony products in the guise of journalism and you seem to be focused mainly on Sega related news. This gets you brownie points in certain communities who come to your site and trip on your ads. Nobody could care about how legit you are, they only care about what the stuff the site contains.

Much like game journalists, except more important and more talented artists, game developers have certain standards of which they abide. If some guy decided a leak was important he wasn' t doing it at some guaranteed assurance of his company or some calculated risk, he was doing what he felt right at the time. The threat to " out" this source is a blind threat, because the second you would bite the hand that fed you you would be ousted and your sources would leave and your site would fail. Don' t pretend like you' re the moral being in this one.

Seriously Kikizo, grow some testes. It' s gotten to the point where journalistic whining becomes a burden on everybody related to the industry. Being a pussy about this won' t help your image, and I' m pretty sure you' ll lose the Sega fanboy support you' ve been getting for a long time if you continue down this path of " blame them, not us."

There are many things I respect about Kikizo, but this post and denial of guilt isn' t a high point in Kikizo' s existence.



Until I read some form of journalistic endevour from yourself. I would suggest you keep your twisted views on things to yourself, like Adam has simply put, you missed the point of this thread., which is not an uncommon thing for you on here.

Saying that Kikizo are only interested in Sega, is like saying Nitro is only interested in playing Barbie games, something that is simply not true. If I had my way a person such as yourself who is constantly either trying to start flame wars or is just too stupid to fully understand a thread, would be banned not just by name but by IP as well, you really like to speak from the arse.

unfortunately I could see this happening, there have been rumours and conjecture for a good few months but never anything concrete. I would suggest it is now all water under the bridge and time to look forward, it is a shame as I really think that Shenmue could have been something really special on this " current" gen of systems...well the big 2 anyway.

Adam Doree
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 03:33
Editorialising against Sony? Sony itself has told us how they are so pleased with the fairness and balanced way we approach them for example in our interviews with Kaz Hirai. Exclusive news just about Sega? PS3 controller, next Xbox development confirmed, a million interviews with 30+ publishers' developer teams. The only consumer game website in the world to have published 1-1 interviews with all three current firstparty global presidents (Iwata, Hirai, Bach/Allard) at this time. Sega " insiders" going to get cut off? We' ll see about that shall we? As for my original post itself, if you want to interpret as me protecting us and moaning about what' s unfair or whatever, that' s your choice; it was intended as un update on things and my thoughts on publishing the article in hindsight. Since you can' t prove or back up much of what you' re saying that makes you as bad as my article in the first place. The difference is, as I pointed out there, I learned a lesson from it all; no more unprovable exclusives from us ever since. But plenty of exclusives nonetheless.

QuezcatoL
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 03:46
Why isn' t MS buying SEGA?

Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

alijay034
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 03:59
Do they really need to just to keep the name alive? I would be a great shame for Sega to be lost.

Silentbomber
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 04:10
Thanks for the update Adam, its nice to know like us, you [and the rest of Kikizo] still care about Sega and Shenmue.

I would totally love to see the Shenmue Ip sold and devolped with Yu heading, with no waggle either. But that is highly unlikely, ever since Sammy has entered the picture, anyway part of me dosent want S3 made yet due to Segas overwhelming crappyness.
< Message edited by Silentbomber -- 1 Aug 07 20:12:42 >
Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

ys
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 04:20

Why isn' t MS buying SEGA?

Thinking back it' s a bit of a shame this deal didn' t go through during the Dreamcast era. Just because both parties were a bit stubborn about having DC-backwards compatibility in the Xbox or not.

B_Ren
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 05:13
Adam- Couple of points.


I thought Shenmue Online, although now directly under Sega, didn' t ever have anything to do with the original Shenmue series and development team (except Yu Suzuki obviously)

If Shenmue is directly under AM2 then will this really affect Shenmue at all? Especially since both games we aimed at completely different locations. Or do you think this is just a sign of the dropping things all together?

uumai
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 05:38
To coin a certain well known sega franchise;

" Game over, yeah!"

Thanks for the update Adam, nice to hear an update even if it is such bad news - Though as it' s been stated, shenmue 3, would probably suck if releas enow, sega are not what they used to be, and with all the waiting Shenmue fans are doing, if 3 is ever release it has a lot of nostalga, hopes etc to live up to... I fear it will fall short. Worse thing sega can do is release a bad 3rd part.

NiGHTS into Dreamcast

DontPeeOnBilly
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 05:43

Editorialising against Sony? Sony itself has told us how they are so pleased with the fairness and balanced way we approach them for example in our interviews with Kaz Hirai.


So, you have one reference with Kaz Hirai... anything else?


Exclusive news just about Sega? PS3 controller, next Xbox development confirmed, a million interviews with 30+ publishers' developer teams.


LoL. The information you have is not exclusive and is printed everywhere on the web. EXCEPT for Sega related rumors. The rest of your articles/news pieces aren' t updated enough and aren' t important.


The only consumer game website in the world to have published 1-1 interviews with all three current firstparty global presidents (Iwata, Hirai, Bach/Allard) at this time.


LoL.


Sega " insiders" going to get cut off? We' ll see about that shall we?


Hope not, otherwise this place would be just a forum.


As for my original post itself, if you want to interpret as me protecting us and moaning about what' s unfair or whatever, that' s your choice; it was intended as un update on things and my thoughts on publishing the article in hindsight. Since you can' t prove or back up much of what you' re saying that makes you as bad as my article in the first place. The difference is, as I pointed out there, I learned a lesson from it all; no more unprovable exclusives from us ever since. But plenty of exclusives nonetheless.


It' s about you whining and not wanting to take responsibility. You fucked up, but you don' t want to admit it. Instead, you shift blame. It' s cowardly.

ShiggsUnderground
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 05:47
Hey guys. I' m new here, but couldn' t help but add my two cents. ys, as I recall, the DC chip in Xbox was just rumor with no credibility behind it.

I don' t think you should be apologizing for anything, Adam. You went with what you had. I remember speaking to a friend of mine about the Sega of old and how we were hit with excellent announcement after excellent announcement in gaming magazines and commercials dating back to the 16-bit era. Today, this is not the case. The company is more secretive than any other company and for what reason? Sega hasn' t really been doing anything or lighting the world on fire with any of its recent outings. Us Sega fans are so starved for news, ANY NEWS, from this company that we will take anything you give us. We' re all adults here. We know to take speculation with a grain of salt. You' re apologizing way too much. Trust me, you' re fine. If you lost any members of this, well good riddance. They were too simple-minded in the first place.

I say keep on with the rumors or leave Sega alone for good. Sega wanted to be independent instead of being purchased by Microsoft and look what happened. Sonic is horrible, all of the cult Sega games (i.e Shenmue) are nowhere to be found, and Sega Rally Revo is 30fps. Unthinkable! Microsoft has shown us nothing but great things and has more than enough money to realize dreams, but you know how the saying goes. You can lead a horse to water, but you can' t make it drink.

B_Ren
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 05:52
DontPeeOnBilly, can' t you take that somewhere else, I don' t want to see a topic full of quotes.

Evilkiller
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 06:05
EDIT: Obviously aimed at DontPeeOnBilly

Well imagine Sony is reading pages like this one and do you really think they would do an interview with Kikizo if that page was so biased? And you know how Sony can start crying around because of nonsense (like with Kikizo revealing stuff about Home).

And how DID YOU point out anything? Are you talking about your " I am a stupid fanboy and can' t write Wollenschlaeger properly" -thread? Now that was a funny one, wasn' t it? Especially considering that there is Kikizo staff that is absolutely in love with their PSP.

I mean by exclusive Adam meant that the News have been published first on Kikizo. And well, it' s the Internet. Nothing exclusive stays that way for a long time because gaming sites tend to be copycats. But that doesn' t change the fact that if Kikizo had a news story first then those news were exclusive at a point.

As for your last point, I dont see where he is shifting the blame. He acknowledged that he made a mistake and that he won' t do this again in the future. But still, you can' t blame him if a game doesn' t get developed because he has got zero influence on that matter.



Wow, I should KDF to my Defence Force Characterization thread. XD
< Message edited by Evilkiller -- 1 Aug 07 23:05:44 >

Adam Doree
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 07:29

ORIGINAL: DontPeeOnBilly
So, you have one reference with Kaz Hirai... anything else?


That is 1-0 to me in terms of examples though, where are yours?


LoL. The information you have is not exclusive and is printed everywhere on the web. EXCEPT for Sega related rumors. The rest of your articles/news pieces aren' t updated enough and aren' t important.


All over the web after we report them yes. They are exclusive because people tell us on record in an interview and we publish it. Other sites pick up our news and SOURCE KIKIZO as the place that secured the info. Are you feeling OK? This is pretty basic stuff. Oh and I never said 100% of our news is exclusive. We report on normal stuff too, because it' s news. You need to look at Kikizo a little closer I think before you offer your criticism (something we welcome when it' s not embarrasingly, obviously wrong - see pinned thread in the other forum here).



The only consumer game website in the world to have published 1-1 interviews with all three current firstparty global presidents (Iwata, Hirai, Bach/Allard) at this time.


LoL.


Explain why this is funny or untrue? Go find me a game site with interviews with all three then make your own mind up about what this means.



Sega " insiders" going to get cut off? We' ll see about that shall we?


Hope not, otherwise this place would be just a forum.


Again you are not really explaining or justifying anything here with facts.


It' s about you whining and not wanting to take responsibility. You ***ed up, but you don' t want to admit it. Instead, you shift blame. It' s cowardly.


" I regret X because of Y and will only do -X from now on" , which I said above, is hardly shifting blame or failing to admit a bad decision.
< Message edited by Adam Doree -- 2 Aug 07 3:01:56 >

Stas8
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 08:08
DontPeeOnBilly: mate, you' ve got issues....

ys
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 10:05

ys, as I recall, the DC chip in Xbox was just rumor with no credibility behind it.

Hm, I' m just going by what I read from some sources of course. I don' t know if it was ever close to being realized. All I read was that these were wishes from Sega. Anyway, Microsoft and Sega must' ve had some talks at the time and a cooperation wouldn' t have been as bad as things are now I assume.

Nitro
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 10:27


ORIGINAL: Stas8

DontPeeOnBilly: mate, you' ve got issues....


I know where i' ve seen your name before...

Welcome.

As for the topic, ...i really don' t think Adam has anything to explain. Rumors and at-the-time " officially unofficial" information fly around all the time. Like in other media industries things change daily, and what was happening at one point may not be happening two months down the line.

I still blame the merger with Sammy for the lack of a Shenmue III. I don' t think they want to take the risk of spending so much for what could be very little return.

QuezcatoL
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 10:29
I demand some heads to roll...
Even if you break 2 legs from a crab it still runs!
What you gotta do is find its weak spot and do massive damage at it.

ginjirou
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 11:12
Adam, until Billy has some examples of his own that shows you' re anti-Sony I suggest you just ignore him. So far his post are nothing but empty words. There' s no reason for you to argue with him. I think he' s just trying to piss you off.
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Stas8
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 11:13
Nitro: appreciate the discretion!

yeah, Adam really doesn' t have anything to explain! Not a fan of Shenmue personally, but what do I know hey...

Thanks for the support!


emofag
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 11:16
Wouldn' t you get more traffic by making up stories about big games that actually matter in the industry? Like make up a fake GTA interview or something?

Seriously, fake shenmue 3 articles is the wrong way to go about it.

IstillwantShenmue3
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 12:02
Hi, my previous name was IwantShenmue3,
i had so many emails i kept forgetting my password, i stick to 1 email address now, no big deal.
I was not really expecting it to come any time soon so this doesn' t blow that much.

Nitro
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 12:16
Or you could report what you were told by a trusted source (who obviously couldn' t be named due to being under an NDA) and get repeatedly attacked and questioned when what was once on the cards gets postponed or canceled.



I can' t believe this is still an issue for some people. It' s like...

Adam - " VF5 headed for 360, revision C, smoother graphics"

Muppets - " Bullshit!!!"

Adam - " Just wait..."


VF5 gets announced for 360...


Adam - " See..."

Muppets - " Yeah well you also said Shenmue III was coming out and that didn' t happen!!!"


(note: those ain' t exact quotes yo!)

Things get canceled, plans change. If you can' t see that then you' re simply shortsighted.

Adam Doree
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 12:19


ORIGINAL: emofag

Wouldn' t you get more traffic by making up stories about big games that actually matter in the industry? Like make up a fake GTA interview or something?

Seriously, fake shenmue 3 articles is the wrong way to go about it.



It' s just as well we don' t go around banning people who get on the wrong side of fact and and insult us at the same time, just because we can...

Joe Redifer
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 12:38
There' s no need for a Shenmue 3. The story ended in Shenmue 1. All you have to do is beat Hang-On at the arcade:


Mass X
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 16:03
This wouldn' t be the first time something like this has happened. Hell I remember reading one magazine that reviewed a game that got canceled the following week.

Silentbomber
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 02, 2007 20:43

Adam - " VF5 headed for 360, revision C, smoother graphics"

Muppets - " Bullshit!!!"

Adam - " Just wait..."


VF5 gets announced for 360...


Adam - " See..."

Muppets - " Yeah well you also said Shenmue III was coming out and that didn' t happen!!!"


I remember that, lol.
Change is inevitable. Except from a vending machine.

Viva La Revolution! erm, I mean Viva La Wii!

ShiggsUnderground
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 03, 2007 00:18
Me too. Nitro hit it on the head, exactly.

fish_wacker
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 03, 2007 06:13
That was genuis!

Nitro
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 03, 2007 15:02
I' m deadly serious. This whole thing has been blown all out of proportion and taken so far out of context that it' s not even funny.

What i don' t get is how sites like IGN who scour GAF for news and end up
getting owned by a fake press release for Metal Gear: Triology on Xbox 360
get so much praise, and Kikizo who go the extra mile to bring you
exclusive content get dogged because of an article that simply gave insight as to
what was going on at Sega at that particular time. What do you want? For
Adam to accept money for positive reviews like other sites and report just
the mainstream shit that everybody else reports?

No, i think i like Kikizo just the way it is thanks.


Vx Chemical
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 03, 2007 15:24

It' s just as well we don' t go around banning people who get on the wrong side of fact and and insult us at the same time, just because we can...


I actually think Emofag were defending you on that one Adam, he was reasoning out that, it would be illogical to make something like that up, if you had to make something up, you could just make it about something many more people cared about!

Nitro
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 03, 2007 15:39


ORIGINAL: Vx Chemical

I actually think Emofag were defending you on that one Adam, he was reasoning out that, it would be illogical to make something like that up, if you had to make something up, you could just make it about something many more people cared about!


No, it was a lame attempt at an insult.

Vx Chemical
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RE: Shenmue update - Aug 03, 2007 15:46

No, it was a lame attempt at an insult.



Well my sarcasm detector is way off then!

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